Aaron Tomlinson is a biblical scholar and expert in the esoterics of christian theology. You might have seen him with Aaron Abke. Because I have been dipping my toes into a lot of the bible lately I asked Aaron to come on and talk about Neville Goddard and this amazing new interpretation of the book of revelation. We discuss the Book of Job, how the bible came to be and many other fascinating tidbits that I know you will love.
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Welcome to the reality revolution. I’m incredibly excited. Today. I’ve got Aaron Tomlinson. Today we’re going to talk about the Bible and reality creation. If anybody has been following my channel, I have dealt at the beginning, we talked about physics and the law of attraction. Uh, as we’ve gone further on and I’ve started to study Neville Goddard, uh, and even Edgar Casey, we’ve started to, uh, look back at the Bible as beyond a resource of just a history or then that. And I’m starting to discuss the Bible more and more on my channel. If anybody looks at any of my episodes on Neville Goddard, Neville Goddard talks about the Bible and I realized I don’t know what I’m talking about. I am, I am clueless with a lot of the stuff about the Bible. And so, uh, I wanted to bring Aaron on. Aaron is a friend of Aaron NAB ki who is also a friend of the podcast we’ve had on. And I really, really respect Aaron’s interpretation and scholarship of the Bible. If you go, and I’ll probably put some links in here of some of the discussions Aaron [inaudible] has had with Aaron. They’ve discussed all of the different ramifications of how the Bible came about, some of the misinterpretations of the Bible. And the more that I’ve delved into this man, I needed to have an expert. So I asked Aaron and he was so nice to come on. So thank you so much for coming on the show. Aaron, welcome to the reality revolution.
Hey Brian, it’s awesome to be here. Thank you so much for inviting me. I’m excited about the chance to talk to you and with your listeners
and a fellow Bronco fan
and a fellow Bronco fan right on.
Can’t go wrong with that. So, so, uh, as I’ve started, the, the thing is when I started reading Neville Goddard, he’s such a great writer and it really was speaking to a lot of the stuff I was talking about on my channel, uh, visualization, uh, manifestation. But as he, as you further go into some of his writings, he has an interpretation of the Bible. And I wanted to know if there, if this interpretation is a line of scholarship in the Bible, but before we do that, I wanted to get a little bit more, uh, let’s, let’s talk a little bit about more about your journey and your spiritual journey. Everybody needs to check out the awakened person or look up Aaron Tomlinson subscribed to his channel. And I wanted to get a little idea about your journey so people can know about you before we discuss some of that. So tell me a little bit more about your personal spiritual journey and how you came to the point you’re at now.
Yeah, sure. Thanks Brian. Um, so I was raised in a Christian home. My mom was devoutly religious, uh, you know, instead of reading us bedtime stories, she would read us Bible stories before we would go to sleep. So I learned the Bible. I learned to pray really early on. I mean, really from my brother’s knee. Uh, and then when I was, uh, late teenager, 17, 18, 19, I had some real crises, a lot of crap that was going on in my life. And so I turned to the only thing I knew metaphysically at the time, and that was Christianity and the Bible. And I was fortunate enough to have a lot of supernatural experiences early on, which a lot of Christians, you know, they don’t have that they have a philosophy of life, but they don’t necessarily have a supernatural or metaphysical connection with anything outside the three D world.
And that’s why the Bible I think is so central in so many Christian traditions because it’s a physical thing that they can look at and read and interpret in that way. Uh, but because my gifting was coming out, um, I decided to go into ministry. So I went and got a degree in theology and really have been in some form of Christian ministry since I was 19. Um, and then, uh, about, I got into full time ministry when I was 30 and it wasn’t long in full time ministry before I started kind of going through my own personal crisis. So that was back in the early two thousands. And I started reading actually a lot of metaphysical books, uh, at that time what I could get my hands on. And one of the ones I came across was Edgar Casey. And I’ll tell a little bit more about that in a minute.
Uh, so what I would do is I would read these metaphysical books and then I would have to bring it back for my own sanity at the time. I’d have to bring it back into some kind of a biblical or Christian interpretation. So oftentimes what I taught and what I preached as a leader and a Christian minister had a metaphysical bent or approach to it. And then, um, through the process of time, I ended up going back and getting a bachelor’s degree in psychology. I got a master’s degree in clinical mental health counseling mostly cause I sucked that, uh, all these people were coming to me for counseling.
It becomes a counseling position more than a scholarly. Absolutely. And, uh, you know, Bible college prepared me for sort of for the scholarly aspects of it, but not the, not the human aspect of it. So I got a degree in clinical mental health counseling and I’m a licensed professional counselor as well. And the more I began to look at my experiences and the strains of Christianity that I was a part of from a mental health perspective, the more I began to realize, wow, this is really, really unhealthy. And then a few years ago I just had this awakening. I had a visitation. I talk about it on my channel, um, and uh, had the sort of visionary experience and when I came out of it, I mean my life was completely racked in 20 minutes and I had to try to kind of make sense of a new reality, a new metaphysical reality.
And I’ve been on that journey for about the last four years. And so I’ve really come out, I don’t identify myself really with any of the Christian streams anymore. Um, and through the process of time begin to connect with people like Aaron [inaudible] and others who come from that background what, but we’re seeing so many of the same things that I was seeing and talking about. And so that’s a little bit of my journey. Uh, I’m still leading, I’m leading a spiritual center now. We closed down our church and I’m leading what we call the awakening center and we’re incorporating all kinds of different aspects of psychological health, holistic health as well as spiritual wellbeing into what we’re doing. And then I work as a professional counselor as well.
Awesome. You can go on your channel and you’re still giving a sermons essentially and teach a lot of this metaphysical stuff. Uh, it’s interesting. I have met many people in your particular position and I’m really interested, I’m just like Aaron, somebody that’s been from that background because I have been from that background and I, and I, I’ve had relationships and family that are in that devout Christian background and I understand where they’re coming from and I understand that the deep desire to connect with God and understand the world around us. But like you said, it becomes toxic in many ways. People end up using these teachings and they fundamentally distort and, and, and can hurt you on your spiritual path can really limit the joys you can experience as you go along. I don’t think that was the meaning. And one thing that I’ve noticed from your discussions with Aaron and your channel is that you don’t, you haven’t disbanded the Bible. You still believe there’s great wisdom in it. It’s just how we’re interpreting it.
Right? Yeah, that’s, that’s absolutely correct. I mean, when I went through this crisis where I began to see so much of what I was taught from the Bible that is sustains the Christian religion, you didn’t have any validity. Even in biblical scholarship. There’s a, there’s a huge gap between, um, honest and really good biblical scholarship and the people that are preaching and pulpits on Sundays and then obviously the person who’s sitting listening to that preaching on Sundays. And so I went through this whole season where all I did was read Bible scholars. And the more I read Bible scholars some more, I realized, damn, this book doesn’t say it all wet.
We’re looking at the red Rose and saying that it’s an, it’s in a purple flower. It’s like, no, that’s not what it says. And that sees all the time. So there’s a point where for me, I just, okay, I’m not gonna, I forget about the Bible. It’s a cursed book for me. I don’t want it. And so I ignored it and I’m in the phase in the season where I’m coming back to it understood after reading Neville Goddard saying, Oh no, no, the Bible is not a history book. Right? Bible is not a, it is a spiritual biography of you. So, Mmm. There I am aware of all the different scholarships of the Bible. So, uh, you know, and I know understand all of the different interpretations of this stuff has been talked about. Obviously, you know, there’s colleges around it. So is there a line of thinking that is interpreted the Bible? Cause it’s limited. I was talking to Mitch Horwitz and I asked him, do you know of anybody that’s interpreting the Bible, like Edgar Casey and Neville Goddard? And he had only thought of maybe William Blake. Uh, you know, it’s, it’s a limited number of people, right? It’s not a main line or school of scholarship. Correct.
Yeah, no, that’s absolutely correct. But the interesting thing about it like to connect Neville Goddard with the Bible, I mean, so he’s, he’s growing up in a, in a time in America where Christianity is that, I mean, everything has to fit within that framework pretty much. And, um, and what I didn’t know until, you know, I was preparing for this interview and just researching a little bit more about him, but he met a teacher in 1933, I think the guy’s name was Abdula and he was a, uh, Ethiopian Jew who was also a rabbi and was trained in the Kabbalah. And so this guy doula became, um, Neville Goddard seizure. And when he tells the story, it’s interesting. He says, when he first met a doula that Abdula went up to him by name and said, you’re six months late. And he said, well, how do you know my name and what do you think six months late?
And so Abdula had had some kind of uh, psychic experience where he had, you know, divined the information about Neville Goddard and that he would become a student of his and basically he deposited Abdula deposited what he knew into navigator. Now why that’s important is because, um, in, in mystical Judaism, which Kamala is the modern representation of mystical Judaism, and even going back to the times of Jesus, they had four different levels of interpretation. The first was the literal level of interpretation. And they would say that that was for a child that would be the stories that you would tell a child. And that if someone stayed committed to a literal interpretation of the scripture, they’ve remained spiritually a child or they remain spiritually immature. The second level of interpretation was to look for patterns. So you might find a pattern. You might find a similarity between the Eden story, the story of Abraham, Exodus story, and something in the new Testament about Jesus and connect those patterns and say, okay, here’s a truth that emerges when we look at those patterns.
The third level was a symbolic level, which looked for a symbolic meaning past the literal. And then there was a fourth level that they called the esoteric level. So if anybody gets into Kabbalah, one of the things that they do is they take the Hebrew letters and the Hebrew language, because in Hebrew, like all ancient, um, alphabets also represented their numeric system. So someone who read ancient Hebrew, when they’re reading the book, they’re not just looking at a book of letters, they’re looking at a book of numbers, right? So capitalists started using numerical significance of different words and connecting them with other words that had the same numerical significance. And what emerged out of that was this very deep, very esoteric, very mystical interpretation of scripture generally is not taught publicly. In fact, uh, the ancient Jews would say, you can only teach it to two or three people at a time.
And it would never, it was never to be shared publicly. So in steps, Neville Goddard, and he’s getting this training and this esoteric revelation of scripture that says, at least as ancient as Jesus, as Jesus, almost as ancient as the Bible itself, that modern Christians know nothing about. So when he’s teaching, he’s teaching that sort of esoteric, symbolic, um, look at scripture, where scripture then becomes a reflection of our own consciousness rather than a historical textbook or even a theological textbook. It becomes an instrument that facilitates our own spiritual awakening. And as of today, I don’t think there’s any, at least in the West, any schools of scholarship or academia or anything that teaches that, but that doesn’t in any way invalidate the teaching itself. It’s older than our biblical scholarship.
Well, I always, when I, when I go through this, I’m always wanting, my first step is, does it resonate with me? Yes. I’m asking my heart, does this, does this resonate? And it does. So that’s the part of me. The curious part of me is going even further. So one of his lectures that I just did that, um, the living word, and I wanted to bounce this off you. Have you had the experience with the Bible where the meanings don’t matter. Sometimes when you’re reading it, it’s literally talking to you. There’s this magical aspect to it where it’s not an interpretation. It is a living representation of what’s going on in your life right now. Is this a, am I crazy or is there something to this? Right?
No, no, you’re not crazy at all that, that was my experience from the very beginning with the scripture, right? So early on in my journey, I didn’t mess with biblical scholarship at all, but I still tried to adhere to the, you know, core foundations of the faith because that’s what all my elders and the faith and all my teachers were telling me that I needed to do. But you know, it’s very interesting verse in second Corinthians, a very interesting chapter in second Corinthians saccharin is chapter three. Paul is writing and he’s alluding to this mystical interpretation of scripture. And he’s even going so far as to say that the Jews of his day, when they’re reading the old Testament, they’re reading it with a bale. They’re only seeing a shadow of the reality of what’s there. And then he makes this really fascinating statement at the end, he says, and it’s, it’s in second Corinthians three 18 he says, be holding us in a mirror.
The glory of the Lord were transformed into the same image with ever increasing glory. So he’s saying, when you look at the book, you’re looking in a mirror, but when you look in the mirror, you’re seeing yourself and he doesn’t say you see the Lord as an objective reality outside of yourself. He says, when you’re doing this, you’re seeing the glory of the Lord, or really the glory of the Lord that you are, but you had not discovered. So really engaging with scripture should be and should culminate in this incredible revelation of who we are as human beings in the image of God. So what you’re describing is actually talked about in the Bible itself.
So I wanted to do the two books. I really am curious about the ones that are tickling my are the book of job in the book of revelations, I, I those two, you’re starting easy. I’m starting easy, right? So of course now the book of job, the first time I read it [inaudible] 20 you know, 18 when I really read it, you know what the unlike what, are you kidding me? I mean God is so incredibly mean and terrible. The things that he does. And then he’s actually working with Satan at the beginning of it. They’re like, it’s like they’re like pals and they’re like, Oh, let’s pick this one dude out. We’re going to torture and we’re going to destroy his life. And I’m thinking really? And so I remember that’d being a, I don’t want to read this anymore. And then coming back to it and understanding what it really meant right now.
No, let’s talk about that first. Neville says in his lecture on the book of Joe, the he, he suspects that the portion about Satan at the bean was inserted later that they saw the original book and said, this is too amazing. This, this can’t be, there has to be an explanation for it. So they added the little part with Satan. Do you think there’s something to that? He even says that the, the wording of the beginning doesn’t seem to fit the wording of the rest of it so that the Satan part who is only mentioned once or twice, uh, is perhaps inserted.
Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s, that that could be a possibility and I would defer to him in the fact that it’s my understanding any way that he learns through his relationship with this rabbi, he learns to read the original Hebrew, which I don’t, but biblical scholarship looks at Satan really differently than the Christian Church. And actually Aaron napkin, I did a segment on this kind of credible video and I recommend everybody watch it. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know if we got into the job stuff much, but the word Satan is not a proper name. Even in the book of job, it’s a term that means the adversary and the first reference to the adversary, or the first reference to a Satan in the Bible is actually God himself, who is an adversary to a prophet named Baylen in the book of numbers. And so the way that Jews have interpreted that, or the way Judaism would interpret that, they wouldn’t see Satan as the proper name for a fallen being. They would see Satan as part of the divine council that’s coming before God. That’s actually a servant of God. So there’s no need to insert this sort of cooperation because it’s assumed, uh, in the text, uh, you know, from the people who gave it to us.
Right? So, so the book of job, the way that Neville is interpreting it, all the stuff that happens to him, his job, hope, his job is creating all of the stuff that happens to him and he’s able to overcome it when he starts praying for his friends and then sees who God really with the implication that, that he is God in the, in, in the ending. So it does. That has, have you heard that interpretation? Does that, is there ring true? Was Neville just talking crazy talk?
No, I don’t think that he’s talking crazy talk. I think it fits in with the whole paradigm of seeing the Bible as revealing States of consciousness or experiences that we walked through or energies that we interact with. I’m not conversant with this material in the book of job. And it’s frankly a book for many of the reasons you mentioned the beginning, I haven’t spent a lot of time with Mmm. But I have spent quite a bit of time in the last few chapters where Joe gets this revelation of God and certainly I think that, you know, I can see what he’s saying there. I think it’s, I think it’s very valid. I think it fits within the larger paradigm, the larger hermaneutic. And definitely it’s with the parts of job that I’m familiar with.
So there’s a couple of references in the Bible. I think that might be Daniel, but it’s also in job where they, when they, when they actually meet with God or ascent, they talk about the whirlwind. So I wanted to ask you, is there some, is there some scholarly interpretation of the whirlwind beyond just what we think of just, Oh, we’re getting carried away. Is it seem, feels like there may be more to that
rough? Yeah, there, there is. So, um, I think one of the things people don’t, don’t get. So for some of your viewers that maybe a little bit more raised in the tradition or conversant with, um, it would appear that Moses is a main figure throughout Israel’s history upon first reading. But as you read through the history books, the book of judges, first Kings, second Kings first and second Samuel the Chronicles. There’s no mention of Moses, right? There’s no mention of Moses after the Torah. Everything’s centered on the kingdom, specifically King David, but mostly the temple and the presence of God that’s within the temple. And so like all ancient people, the Israelites believe that the temple was the spiritual gateway between having an earth or it was the gateway, uh, that would allow some, in most cases, it was just the high priest to pass through what they called the veil into these metaphysical dimensions that they call the heavens.
So in I want to say about 580, I may not have my dates right, but centuries before Christ, the Babylonian, the Babylonians come in to completely destroy the Jerusalem temple. They completely destroy, um, the city of Jerusalem and they carry captives away into Babylon. And since a book really wasn’t the center of their religion, a temple and the presence of God that they believed wasn’t biting in the temple was the center of the religion, right? So they had to reformat their faith. And that’s when Moses becomes a key figure within the religion Judaism. Now, having said all that, uh, you had two strings that formed, you had one stream that formed, that was rabbinic, that was very focused on Moses and the book and the text. Very much like fundamentalist Christians probably today, which you had another stream of priests who had lost their temple.
And so in the book of Ezekiel chapter one, you see this prophet named Kewill has this experience in a whirlwind where he caught up into the presence and the throne of God and he sees this being like unto the son of man sitting upon the throne that gave birth to a whole stream of mystical Judaism [inaudible] that was interested in contacting the divine that realized, uh, we don’t have to contact God or the divine through a temple or through a physical representation, but in fact the divine lives within us. And so the whole idea of the whirlwind then, uh, becomes this idea of discovering and enlightenment and awakening of the divine within you and oneness with God. Um, that was known as, as the Mark above, uh, the chariot of God. And they would talk about finding that chariot that you were the chariot of God. And so there’s various different interpretations of what that whirlwind might be. But generally from a mystical perspective, it’s viewed as sort of this whirlwind of consciousness that we go through, that we’re thrown into as we’re being disoriented from a world that is strictly three-dimensional and reoriented to a world that is incredibly expansive and infinite.
Wow. So Neville’s argument with Moses is, he may have existed, but it doesn’t matter. He’s a state. Here’s a statement we go through here. You’re going to go in and you’re going to see the promised land, but you’re not going to be allowed into it until you change your state. Just something else. Because Moses, it’s not allowed it. And when you’re reading that [inaudible] all this stuff, Moses, he’s like, no, you can’t go. You can’t go into the promised land. You’re thinking God is mean. All the travails and all that stuff, like you mentioned on the interview. Um, Moses, that gets mad at Moses for not circumcising one of his kids after this big meeting with, um, so there’s some contradictions, but it does resonate with me. This idea that it’s a state that we go through the state of Moses, right? We go towards this promised land that we’re trying to go to, but we can’t go into the promised land unless we change our state.
Yeah. I actually believe wholeheartedly that’s why those stories are encoded in the Bible for us, including the stories about Jesus because the historical information doesn’t do us any good in our present reality. We can connect with the States of consciousness, the energies, the things that those people experienced and relate it back to ourselves. Then it becomes, like you said, a very eloquently a living book, but then has the ability to transform our lives and open up our consciousness and expand our consciousness. So I think you know, for someone, for, for people who are steeped in Western Christianity by just adjusting their paradigm and how they look at scripture, I think rather than it becoming a book that they have to throw out or that’s used for tyranny and meanness and mentalism, which is really kind of the Moses state really, right? Cause God is this monster, you know, rule keeper. And you just never really know which time he’s going to get pissed off because he passes over seemingly what we would think are big sins and then punish is these minutiae issues. And it’s, yeah, it’s a representation of us, um, living in that life. So I think everybody, I totally agree with Neville Goddard that everything and every character in the scripture represents, reflects back to us an aspect of ourselves and that the scripture can be used for our own self discovery and self refinement.
Right? W one of after reading the Bible, one of the revelations about the Bible I F I had was when I got it on audible and I listened to it because I can listen to stuff super fast. So I listened to it at like three and a half times speed to where I could still understand it. But while I was working and I was able to kind of listen to the entire Bible and like three or four days, right? And it’s just like watching a movie. If you just watch, uh, like a scene from the movie. And then go back to it the next day and watch another scene, which a lot of us read the Bible. We read one chapter at a time or we read one section at a time. Uh, when I did that, I saw the whole Bible as one thing. It was a [inaudible] in my mind. I could carry it around as this. Uh, and just the anger of God in that old Testament was way more pronounced than I had read when I reading these individual. He was just angry. Just the, the, the, the that didn’t, um, I didn’t know. Am I right? Crazy.
Right. Yeah, you’re absolutely right. And that’s the part, uh, I did a series a couple of years ago. I called it the shadow side of God. That’s the part of God that as Christians we keep in the closet and we don’t bring out,
then, but very pronounced, it’s very pronounced in the old house,
but he was most angry. There’s all those that he was, if you would re go through the whole testing, his greatest, the greatest sin was idolatry to other gods. It wasn’t, it was, you know, he, he of things would happen. He would get mad. But boil boy, if you were, if you were praising other idols, then that’s when SmackDown would happen. And that would be the first thing he would mention over anything else. Is there a reasoning behind that or what would you,
yeah, I think that that’s when it’s important to keep in mind. So, so for me, the Bible, the Bible has two faces at least. So it has this metaphysical face that we’re talking about that awakens us. Uh, the quickens us, that expands us. But it also has a historical it, it has a history, it has an evolution. And so I think you have to put those things in their historical context. So while people want to say that Abraham introduced monotheism, that’s not accurate according to the Bible, because what he introduced was the God of Israel. And so every tribe or nationality had their God or their gods. The difference was Israel only had one God. So, so monotheism and its origins wasn’t, Oh, there’s only one God total. It was, we have one God that we follow. You have many gods that you follow. We have one God and our God is all powerful. And so you see these conflicts and things going on. So really God’s, uh, prescriptions for Israel against idolatry were for Israel. And people aren’t gonna like that. I’m going to say this, but it was as much about nationalism and race as it was about worshiping what we would call the one God
at the time.
Yeah. Because it was always, it was frequently mentioned with intermarrying and intermingling. Don’t, when you go into the land, don’t intermingle with the people that are there because you’ll go off and worship their gods.
Um, just one question that came unrelated cause I got, I got, I got an expert with me. So I think it’s a lie. Shia, E. L I. S H a. The prophet Elisha. Okay. So the story we’re Alicia is somebody makes fun of his baldness and he’s like, Oh no, how did, that kills a like group of kids with a couple bears. I’m going, what? You know, and God’s cool with it. You know, you’re just going to kill a bunch of kids because they made fun of your baldness is have you ever heard, uh, an interpretation or do you know what I’m referring to?
I know exactly what you’re referring to and uh, yeah, it’s one of the, it’s another one of those weird things. I told Aaron napkin our last podcast thing and we did, I said, we’re going to have to do a, an episode on all the weird stuff in the Bible on the words though, right? That was one that’s definitely up there. Um, yeah, I don’t have any esoteric revelation on that.
All right, so the one I had, uh, messaged you about that I wanted to talk about was sure. The book of revelation. Yup. This book has been used for to justify Wars. It is being used right now to justify policies and Wars. People are dying. It’s an incrementally important book. So let’s bring it, let’s bring this book out to the table instead of not talk about it, because a lot of people, uh, maybe you don’t want to talk about it, but let’s, let’s talk about the book of revelation, uh, because it’s a part of the same Bible that we’re talking about. And of course I go back to the first time I read it. And, um, what in the, what is this? You know, it’s, it’s got these seven, the seven trumpets in the seven churches and, and it’s, it’s, it’s dark Carrie, and it’s hard to, and, uh, people have tried to say, the end of the world is coming from reading little lines from it. So now that I’ve gone through this Neville Goddard phase, and Edgar Casey says, Oh yeah, the book of revelation is about your awakening. Yup. And so I wanted to have you heard this interpretation before, and I wanted to get your, your impression of that.
I’ve heard that interpretation before, only from Edgar Casey. Um, so that’s one of the books I picked up and see Edgar Casey was safe for me. I started reading him probably 2005, 2006. And the reason I say he was safe is because he was devoutly a Christian. And people do not necessarily know that he read his Bible and pray to every single day of his life. He read through the Bible once every year. Uh, he taught Sunday school, I think, in a Presbyterian church in his community. Uh, he would even give stuff in his, you know, cause he would go into, for people that aren’t familiar with Casey, he would go into these sleep States and really channel information, incredible revelation, uh, regarding people and their situations, their sicknesses, uh, things about history, things about the future. He predicted the, the, uh, stock market crash. She predicted world war II, the end of world war II several years before any of that happened.
All of that’s on record. And, but he would talk about reincarnation. And as a Christian, he didn’t believe in reincarnation. So he would go to sleep, talk about reincarnation, then he’d wake up, he wouldn’t remember what he said. They’d have to tell him what he said, and he would, uh, he’d be shocked. I don’t even believe in fascinating things. So, yeah. So all of that to say that for me, Casey was safe, uh, because as a Christian, you’re just taught to be afraid of all this stuff. You know, all this stuff. It’s the devil, whatever. And, but I was, you know, I couldn’t deny the reality and the power of some of the stuff I was reading. So, uh, Casey’s book on revelation was safe because here’s a Christian who’s writing from a metaphysical perspective, who’s writing about the book of revelation. Uh, and I love what he puts in that book.
Um, and I remember like my first out of body experience came practicing one of the meditations out of the book. And I was totally shocked. I went to sleep practicing that meditation and that night I’m floating over my body and you know, scared me to death. And I jerked, I jerked back in. But, but that was when I was like, Oh, there’s something here to this and, and appreciate Casey’s approach to it. Probably more than any of the others. And I’ve looked at that book from the prophetic perspective, the historical perspective. It’s very difficult book to try to comprehend.
So let’s look at the background. So that the story is, this was written by John, right? And he, uh, they, John and Paul were sent, Paul was killed, or is it Peter? Is it Paul?
Uh, they were both dead by this time. According to trick to tradition. Right?
Well, Paul tells John, I will visit you right? At some point. I, I will visit you in the spirit.
No, that, that, that’s not part of the tradition because it in, in reality, and again, this is something that Bible scholars bring out, but the Joe nine streams of Christianity and the Pauline square strings of Christianity were at odds.
Okay. So when he sees this angel Casey is saying he’s seeing Paul, right?
Seeing Peter. So it’s not the, it’s Peter, but he just sees this bright angel of light. Right? Right. So when he’s in the spirit, it would appear that John is meditating, he’s meditating. [inaudible] the whole vision he’s having is in a meditation visit. And Peter has visited him and said, let me get, bring you these revelations. Now according to Casey, he saying that this will only make sense to people when they know it makes sense. And, and you know, after reading this, and I, and I read it this weekend, I had the same as you, an outer body, literal outer body experience, a reading. The images are coming to me, it clearly more that it was, it was something special and there was something to it. Um, a lot of the, the revelation is a warning. We talk about chakras but being opened and in this awakening, uh, literature, but we don’t talk a lot about the warning. Like when, when we open up these shockers in these energy centers, they can be dangerous, right? There’s, and so that’s what I’m getting from the, when you open your throat, trucker, you have this power, the voice of God almost where you can manipulate people and he’s saying, look what happens. You can cause Wars and famines and you can cause all these things. Am I getting? Is that my interpretation?
Yeah, no, I, I, I, I’m sure that’s what Casey was saying in his book. And you know, the thing about shock grows, um, and, and I have a elementary understanding of that stuff, but it’s been part of my spiritual journey. I started doing chakra meditations back in 2001 and definitely back then, you know, the Kundalini, the serpent power, your awakening. I mean, that was really taboo Christian back then I came across, I don’t know if you would be familiar at all with the writings of a Dion fortune. She was Emory self-defense. Yeah. Psychic self-defense. She also wrote a book called the mystical Kabbalah.
Another domain. Very hard to understand.
Yeah, I do read it. Yeah. Amazing. The introduction to the mystical Kabbalah, she talks about, um, the tree of life, which is a, again, a cabalistic symbol
and that’s referred to in the revelation, right? The tree of life.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, but, but she’s referring to is the Safaro uh, it’s a diagram, um, right, yeah. Kabbalah diagram, right? Yeah. And the capitalistic diagram that they call the tree of life, that is a diagram of 10, uh, circles that they call Sephora, which is the Hebrew term for circles of energy. And so it’s representing 10 energy centers that are part of the divine body of God, but also they carry with them this idea that we are, that God is in us or that there’s this union. And so it’s also a map of, of human consciousness. And so in the Western tradition, Western mystery traditions, they use the tree of life rather than the shock Rose. And um, so Deon fortune says in her book, she says that, uh, really is a westerner. You shouldn’t be messing with shock gross because as she goes through mythical Kabbalah, the yoga of the West.
And the reason she says that is because the way our lifestyles are, our lifestyles are not compatible with the opening up of the shockers because there are dangerous in that. So a lot of the yogis and stuff that came over from the East in the 60s, they said the same thing. I mean they were cautious in that sense about Westerners messing too much with opening up the shockers for exactly the reason that you’re mentioning Casey’s talking about. So I think it’s interesting when you consider the timing the case. He gets this revelation because as far as I know, no one else has ever had that revelation on the paper. Um, but I think he brings in that, that that component of, uh, doing shop real work that is completely and utterly missing in the Western,
the balancing and the way they work together, which is the seven trumpets and going over. So, uh, the parts that are still, let me see if I can pull up, I have the ed UKC book. Mmm. The seven seals and the seven soundings, the seven seals and soundings. So to go back the beast would then be the ego, right? And the beast is what we’re battling the self, the part of us, the selfish part of us that’s not connected to God.
right. It’s not this scary thing. And the dragon is the, is the serpent from the beginning. Okay. Casey says that the dragon is the part of us that connect that, that wanted to separate from source and go on this separate journey. Not as a bad thing, but that’s what this great dragon is part. We were connected to source. Um, if you heard that, does that make sense?
That, yeah, that makes perfect sense to me.
Another thing he said, go ahead. I’m sorry.
It relates back to the book of job actually. Um, the, the dragon rising out of the sea, if you read it, and I think I want to say either chapter 39 or 40 of the book job, it talks about Leviathan, right? In other languages he would be referred to as low tan. So the image that you see drug dealing with or God addressing job about is this beast that lives in the sea, which really represents those unconscious energies of the shadow self that when we don’t recognize them, we don’t own them, we don’t bring them up into consciousness. They chaos and problems for us in our life and we don’t even know that it’s us creating our own chaos. So yeah, the book of revelation. Then is is presenting this same concept that these are aspects of ourself that can be wildly out of control until they’re dealt with
and it’s dealing with our desires. The, the, the greed, the, all of those little desires that can distort our path to awakening.
Um, let me see if I can, and then we talk about the, the 20, the throne, the 24 elders. So he’s talking, he’s saying that those are actual nerve centers in the brain, the 24 elders that are being activated, which is mind blowing, right? Yeah.
Let’s see what else we got. If there’s any others that I could,
yeah, we could probably just go line by line and it gets super crazy, but Mmm.
the primary thing is,
clearly this has been talked about and planned. Mystically we’re all going through this journey, right? Um, and it’s just such a shame. So many devout Christians that are ignoring this, that if we, if we had a really, uh, devout Christian with us right now, we started talking about shock Rose or anything in that manner, they would immediately say it’s the work of the devil and the devil is in there that we’re say tonic. And, um, so this is so frustrating that we have the people that, that would, that could awakened, that have this general desire in the, and they’re being diluted or manipulated away from the true living word of the Bible.
Yeah, absolutely. You know, like one of the, one of the things you can sit down with it about Christian and you can talk about Egor Casey, uh, if they know of him at all, they know of him as a new age. Uh, if you talk about some of the things he taught, definitely they’re gonna say that’s new age. Um, and, but what’s interesting about it is if you begin to tell him he was a devout Christian, he was, uh, devout believer. He connects all of this metaphysical stuff with the Bible, with the teachings of Jesus, with our Christian heritage. And if they know anything about him, they’ll point to his prophecies that he missed. So I mentioned some of the ones that he got right when he was living. He prophesied some crazy stuff like in the nineties Atlantis was going to rise and whatever. And they’ll point to those things and they’ll say, well those things didn’t happen.
So therefore he’s a false prophet and they will turn a complete blind eye to the fact that the book of revelation has been used for hundreds of years to predict the rise of the antichrist and the second coming of right. And they’ve been wrong every single freaking time. Not to mention the fact that many of the writers in the new Testament, Jesus’ own disciples believed that Jesus was returning to the earth in their own lifetime and they were declaring this. So you know, you can dismiss, people will be able to dismiss Casey cause they’ll say, well he missed certain prophecies over here and they’ll totally ignore the, the larger piece of the pie, the larger percentage that was profoundly accurate and they’ll discount him cause he got one or two things incorrect. And yet look at their own book and their own tradition and say, there’s a lot here that was wrong, that the writers of the Bible got wrong in their own predictions of the future and they just turn a blind eye to that.
And so it really comes back to this sort of self serving bias. Because here’s the thing, when you become indoctrinated in faith, you become indoctrinated and Christianity, you build an entire identity. That is your story. Everything that you relate to, how you relate to God, how you relate to other people, how you relate to yourself. And when you go through this process as a Christian of deconstruction, it’s not like giving up belief in Santa Claus and it’s not like a, Oh yeah, well, okay, I can just change my mind on certain things. When that narrative that you have built, your entire reality around becomes challenged, your entire identity is challenged. And so for those of us like myself who have gone through what we call this deconstruction process, you have to let that your, your world very much what Casey talks about, very much the imagery of the book of revelation.
Your world collapses, your son goes dark, your mind goes dark. You don’t know who the hell you are. I wish we could go back, but you’ve seen too much already. You know what I’m saying? And so it is a complete losing of your life. It is a complete letting go of the person that you understood yourself to be. The world is to, you understand it to be. And then you’re left with nothing, uh, in the, in, you know, at least for a transitional period where then you have to reconstruct a whole new reality and identity and idea. And a lot of people just go out and construct a whole new legal and, and that’s not the idea of the process either. So really when you’re reading what Casey says about the book of revelation and you’re talking to a devout Christian, a fundamentalist Christian, they’re like [inaudible]. We’re asking them if we’re asking them to wake up, we’re asking them to embrace all the reality of what Casey’s talking about. Uh, and all the symbolism of the book of revelation is talking about, cause it’s going to be the end of your world. You’re going to have to resurrect that.
Right. So I want it because I know that this interview is out of order, but I’m just going with stuff that, so the history of revelation, I was reading about how they originally decided to put this book in the Bible because it’s not your normal book. Usually these are firsthand letters. And then then this, then this. So I read that they said it can be taught with, when they originally decided to put it in, there was a supposition on how it would be taught. Is that correct? It was not to be taught as prophecy. It was kind of a spiritual,
no, that’s absolutely correct. The one book in the Bible that I say has an asterisk by it, when it got included in the, what we call the Canon of scripture or our Bibles today.
[inaudible]. So was that Nicea or was that later on? You know, I don’t, the history of the Bible is fascinating to me as well that when they decided to go ahead,
no, no, no. Go ahead Brian. I cut you off.
When they decided to create the, um, when they decided the actual books of the new Testament, that was 300 a B.
yeah. Actually. So Nicea was around three 12 and it had nothing to do with the Bible. That’s that, that is like the one, like I see that all over the internet and that’s wrong. Yeah. Just drives me crazy. People say, you know, well, the Bible was put together at the council and I see it nicely. It had nothing to do with nothing to do with the Bible. The Bible comes around much later. I want to say three 83 or three 92, and I forget the name of the, the convocation where they finally said, this is it, um, it just escapes me right now. But it was, it was towards the, uh, end of the fourth century. So it was almost 70 years, uh, after the council Nicea actually,
and so we need to put this in perspective. Imagine stuff that happened in 16 hundreds. Right, right. And we’re deciding right now, today what is going to go in this book that it’s talking about stuff that happened the 16 hundreds and far before [inaudible] how, how would the people in it now? No, I mean we didn’t live that time. We don’t have the truth behind it. It’s kind of a random, you know, this idea that the Bible is an errand and there is no mistakes. It’s amazing when we start to consider the implications. Just a group of people decided 400 years later what would be in the actual book.
Yeah. Brian, I’m really glad. I’m really glad you brought that up because it, um, yeah, the Bible back then, even back then and through the history of, of the church, Mmm. It was not viewed like it is today. Um, the view that we have of it today as the word of God as the authority started with reformation, Martin Luther and John Calvin, uh, what the church was interested in was preserving the tradition, the doctrines of the faith. So there, the word Canon means rule or authority. Their authority was the councils. So the council of Nicea and all the various other councils. So what would happen is that whoever the powerful people were at that time, they would come together and wrestle with whatever the contemporary issue was and then they would release a pronouncement. This is what the church believes. This is what God has shown us.
So they weren’t putting the Bible together to say, this is going to become the source of our faith and the rule of our conduct. No, not at all. They were putting together a Bible to preserve what they had already decided that they themselves believe. So they’re not evaluating scripture necessarily from the viewpoint of is this accurate? Is this not accurate? Uh, that comes into play, but they’re evaluating it from the standpoint, does this support the church and the church’s teachings, or does this negate the church and the churches teachings? And so all the Gnostic books, uh, the, you know, the Gnostic gospels, Thomas, uh, there’s several attributed Mary Magdalen, they were all about what we’re talking about, which was discovering Christ within you. And they even talked about, you know, back in the first century, um, the Gnostic Christians were talking about Jesus being a symbol of a higher self and what, uh, the divine self awakening from within us.
Well, that completely undermines the authority of the church. If you’ve got gone in you, you don’t need the sacraments, you don’t need the priests, you don’t need mesh and you don’t need all that stuff. So they’re discounting books, not based on their historical evidence. They’re discounting books based on whether or not it agreed with the doctrines that they had agreed was the truth at that time. And one of the reasons revelation has an asterisk by it is because they didn’t, uh, uh, they felt like it was a dangerous book, dangerous to the state and whatever else. So that’s why they say you can use it in your liturgies. You can use it as part of your worship. You can, uh, read passages from it, but you can’t teach doctrine from the book of revelation, right? So the Bible exists as part of the tradition, not the source of the tradition.
And that’s really important for Christians to understand. When Martin Luther and the reformation is coming along, they have to find a new source of authority because they’re breaking with the authority hierarchy or structure of the Catholic church. They’re breaking with what the Catholic church teaches as an apostolic succession. We have the same tradition and the same teachings as Peter and the original apostles. So they had to come up with a new Pope. They had to come up with a new source of authority. So they said, we’re going to go by those scriptures alone. Martin Luther was famous for saying Sola scriptura, which in Latin was the scriptures alone. And that’s when the Bible began to be elevated as this book that is the source of our faith in the rule of our conduct. But you know, that’s [inaudible] what, 14, well, a thousand years after the book had been put together.
Right. So, yeah, I wanted to get your impression, you mentioned that the, that the book of Enoch and these, uh, these other books, some of them are incredible reading. They’re, they’re, they’re fascinating reading. I was reading, uh, the book of revelation written by the scenes, which was found in the dead sea scrolls. So many wonderful works that were not included. Is there any in particular that have stood out to you after your awakening that have carried some meaning for you? Like the book of revelations has for me now that I’ve reread it so that you, do you understand what I’m asking?
Yeah, I do understand what you’re asking. So I went through kind of a brief a time when I was reading the Gnostic gospels. I think the gospel of Thomas is the most accessible to
as modern people. Some of the Gnostic gospels, there’s, it’s probably good. They weren’t included. You get that impression as well, right? Yeah.
Yeah. So for me, I, I and I did spend a lot of time with the book of Enoch. Uh, not only reading the text, but looking at the historicity and, and what scholars were saying about the book of Enoch as well. One of the things that’s really interesting and why I find it’s interesting to come back around to Neville Goddard that he was tutored by a Ethiopian Jew is that we have a Canon of scripture and the Protestant, um, church of 66 bucks and back, uh, I want to say in the 18 hundreds when they were exploring Africa, there was a group of Westerners that came in to Ethiopia and they found a group of Ethiopian Christians, right. And they had a Bible that I believe either had 86 or 88 texts in it, in our Canon. And the book of Enoch was one of them. Now, Jude and Jesus, both quote from the book of Enoch, but Jude, the book of Jude in the new Testament, quotes directly from the book of Enoch and Bible scholars. Up until this time, the 18 hundreds said, well, the book of Enoch didn’t exist or whatever, cause this is before they discovered the dead sea scrolls. And so they go into Ethiopia, they find this complete book of the book of Enoch. And really again, because of the racial prejudice of it, they completely discounted their books. So more than likely the book of Enoch was part of the original Christian sacred text as well as many honors.
In any case, even if you don’t understand it, it plays like an Epic movie. The book of Enoch, this dude gets to visit the angels and goes and meets God and all this, you know, you can’t help but read it just for that, you know?
Yeah. And actually rather than Moses. So at the time of Jesus, there’s this competition between a group of uh, devout, um, Jewish people who follow Enoch and the teachings of the book of Enoch and they’re interested in this sort of mystical ascent into heaven. And Enoch is the main figure. And then you have rabbinical Judaism where Moses is the figure and these two groups are in conflict with one another. So some of the conflict that you read about when Jesus is a battling with the Pharisees in the Bible, he’s coming from this mystical school that really related more with the person would be not going to book Vietnam then with Moses for the tourist interest. Yeah. It was coming out of the mystical side. So when he goes into the temple and he says, you know, you’ve turned my father’s house into a den of thieves. That was a common belief of the strings of Judaism that adhered more to the mystical side of things and less to the legalistic side of things. So he wasn’t doing anything new. Right. Coming down on this side, if you will, of the mystics in that controversy was going on at that time.
So we have a few minutes here and I wanted to explore it. One of the more controversial ideas of Neville Goddard, when people hear it stands out, uh, and it’s, it’s crazy to imagine that this guy in the 50s was getting up and saying, you are God. So this theory that the Bible in the Bible clearly says, and that he, through his own understanding that not only is this a story of your spiritual journey, but you are God. Now, as I’ve read the Neville interpreting, I’ll give you what I’ve learned so far. He’s saying that at some point in time, and which I got confirmation because Edgar Casey says we were eternal before we came to earth. We were a part of a soul group called the morning star. And we chose God chose to, to be split up and become all of us. And that we go through all of this pattern of States.
Uh, he even implies it’s over a 6,000 year period of time. Uh, I, the more I read, the more I learned that we all, we go through a 1,260 day period where we become aware that we are God. And then in the final process of this is that we, once we become God, it’s our duty to go out and lovingly imagine and bring God to other people. If you have the power of God, you can help other people. Uh, that’s kind of his message. So that’s him saying it. And whenever I say it, I want, what is the biblical scholar say to someone, Hey, the Bible is telling us we are God. Jesus wasn’t saying, I’m not God. He was saying, I’m God. And so are you. Is that wrong? Is that a sin? Is it, tell me what your interpretation of that is for as a sculpt from a scholarly point of view.
Yeah, yeah. That’s brilliant. So, um, yeah, where do I start with that? So in Colassians [inaudible] for listeners that are interested in, in the book of Galatians chapter one, the apostle Paul is writing about his ministry and the word of God that he preaches. Now, if you turn on, God forbid Christian television, or you hear preachers in churches today and they’ll say, they’ll say, I’m preaching the word of God, and they’ll hold up a Bible and say, this is the word of God. But in the book and the book of Colossians, Paul says, the word of God is this. He says, it’s a mystery which has been hidden from generations and from ages. What is now being revealed are now being made manifest among the Gentiles. So people who were not considered to be the people of God by the religious institution of the day. And he says, this mystery is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Now the thing that’s that that overturns modern Christianity, that that passage in Colassians chapter one towards the end of the chapter there overturns it all because he’s saying this is a mystery that that existed from the beginning of time, but was hidden and not reveal to us.
Most Christians today would tell you, no, this is a mystery that was brought to, uh, there was somehow accomplished by Jesus. But you have to ask Jesus to come into your heart that Jesus accomplished at the cross. Paul’s not saying that at all. Paul sang that it’s a mystery that existed. It’s a reality that existed, but we didn’t know about. And we’re being awakened to Paul saying, the word that I’m preaching to you is to awaken you to the divine that is within you in the gospel of John. Um, yeah, it says, you know, in the beginning was the word, the logos and the word was with God and the word was gone. And then it goes down and, and every translation that you have, it’s going to say, and the word became flesh. The word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we’d be held as glory. And that’s probably one of the worst translations in the Bible. And I took our church through this, I took the word that’s translated among there. And in every situation that that word is used in the Greek new Testament, it’s translated as within or to be inside of something, even like they went into the temple, it’s going to be that same Greek word right in John’s gospel, what it actually, what electrons actually saying there is what word became flesh and dwelt within us. And we beheld his glory. The glory of something only begun.
So there’s the word, the Bible,
they changed the word because again, if you’re looking within, you don’t have to look without. And so then what does that do to the church authority structures? There’s one other place in scripture where that word is translated among instead of within, and it’s in Luke 17 where Jesus says, the kingdom of God does not come with observation. It does not come outside of you. He says, the kingdom of God is within you. [inaudible] but they changed it to the kingdom of God is among you. Now your modern translations have caught up. In most cases, Luke 17 will say the kingdom of God is within you, but they still haven’t changed. John chapter one where it says the word became flesh involved with them, right?
So in the trial of Jesus, he’s arguing the same thing too. He’s saying, did I not do it? Does it not say that I’m gone? He’s not arguing, I’m the only God and I just came because this is the whole thing. He’s saying, he’s making the argument as well. Am I right or am I,
Oh, you’re absolutely 100% correct. In John chapter 10 they pick up stones. The religious community picks up stones to kill Jesus. And he says, for which of the good works are you trying to kill me? And they said, not for work, are we trying to kill you? But because you being a man claimed to be God, and that was actually what got him crucified. And certainly in John’s gospel there he says your own scriptures say that you are gods. And so yes, to model that oneness with the father and then to reveal that one that’s to us call young said this in his writings. Um, there’s a guy that you might be interested in, um, Baird, T Spalding who was writing in the 1920s who, uh, I don’t know if you’re familiar with the lives and teachings and the masters of the far East, but those were the books that he read and both Carl Young and bird [inaudible] Spalding stay. You know, we’ve taken the ideal, which is Jesus and we’ve made it an idol. Uh, we’ve taken the example and we’ve made it the exception. So we’ve taken the ideal, which is our highest self being manifested, and we projected it outside of ourselves as an object of worship. And we have taken, uh, Jesus who was modeling for us, who we could all become and we’ve made him the exception rather than the example. Right?
It is wonderful to share this teaching with you. I’m so happy that I had you on. I’ve learned so much. I could keep on going down these rabbit holes, but thank you so much for taking the time and, and, and teaching me about this stuff. Everybody needs to check out the awakened person, the channel. You can subscribe to the channel. I’ll make sure to have a link on the interview and you have a regular content all the time. You’re always being interviewed by Aaron too, and check out those interviews. Those were amazing. Uh, I know that cause that this is how the Bible works. Uh, I’m sure that I’m going to have some question or idea that I forgot to mention from some of the stuff that we’ve talked about. But,
thank you so much for, uh, for teaching me, um, somebody who doesn’t know about the Bible and taking the time to explain this stuff to me in it. And, uh, I, I feel like we’re as, uh, as we, as we become to learn this, wouldn’t it be amazing if the whole world would come to this realization and instead of becoming parts of countries and separating into these little individual religious communities, understand that we’re all linked together and we’re one, we’re all awakening and this is a wonderful thing and I just want to share the news to everybody that it’s not what you think it is.
Right. That’s awesome, Ryan. Yeah, absolutely. And thank you so much for having me on. You’ve inspired me and I, I was only, I only had a, a cursory understanding of Neville Goddard and preparing for this interview. I’ve, man, there is such rich, rich content there. So I’m going to be some time so I might have some questions for you.
So, well, yeah, the, the final thing, see there’s two parts of Neville Goddard so I could talk a little more. He talks about at the beginning he was talking about the law of assumption that the law, that God gave us this law to help us through our journey and that we can go enter into States, which you really appeals to people. But later on he’s kind of, he’s over it. I’ve already, I’ve achieved everything. He was focused on something called the promise, which sounds like, uh, and he gives examples. He has the book of the law of the, and the promise. And, and he starts talking about how the Bible establishes that we have a promise once we go and become God and become aware that we are God, that we are moving on at that point, we’re not going to keep on reincarnating. He has a very unusual interpretation of reincarnation, which is never fully explained. Almost as if when we move to the next life, we’re already in a full youthful body moving on. Um, which is I, there’s still bits and pieces I don’t understand, but we’ll, we will definitely talk some more as I explore his, uh, cause I’m still just a student and so
me too. So yeah, it’d be awesome man. Love it. Thank you. It’s good to connect with you.
All right, so, and the next time I got season tickets to the Broncos and I’ve had a hard time getting rid of some of my tickets. So, and I even tried to get Aaron to go to a game. So I next, next game, next year. You know the big question is, is drew Locke? Can he be our franchise quarterback?
Uh, yeah. I don’t know man, cause I don’t want to get my hopes up because I tell every Bronco fan this. They’re like a bad abuse relationship every season. And then you think they’ve changed, they do something, they get a new quarterback coach. They do something to make like I’m different now. I’ve changed, I promise. And then you buy into it and you get abused again.
We got, we got Tom Brady, we could get Philip Rivers, but we got drew Locke. So I’m hoping as a Bronco fan that works out. But
I’m excited about drew Locke. I think he’s the real deal. But we’ll see.
Hey, we can not, we eternally hope we learn about hope. And football. Right? All right. Thanks Aaron. Thanks. Random reality revolution.
Epiphany addict, inner space astronaut, writer, coach, dad, lover, friend.