Jude Currivan’s amazing book The Cosmic Hologram In-formation at the Center of Creation just blew me away when I read it. When I reached out to her I was so excited that she agreed to an interview.
This book describes how holographic patterns of information underlie our physical reality
It includes myriad evidence from a wide range of cutting-edge scientific discoveries showing our Universe is an interconnected hologram of information
It explains how consciousness is a major component of the cosmic hologram of information, making us both manifestations and co-creators of our reality
She helps to reconcile Quantum Mechanics and Einstein’s Theory of Relativity by showing that energy-matter and space-time are complementary expressions of information
Our understanding of the Universe is about to transform at all levels, from the tiniest Planck scale to the vast reaches of space. Recent scientific discoveries show that the information that upholds all of our modern technologies is exactly the same as the universal in-formation that underpins, pervades, and is all we call physical reality.
Exploring how information is more fundamental than energy, matter, space, or time, Jude Currivan, Ph.D., examines the latest research across many fields of study and many scales of existence to show how our Universe is in-formed and holographically manifested. She explains how the fractal in-formational patterns that guide behavior at the atomic level also guide the structure of galactic clusters in space. She demonstrates how the in-formational relationships that underlie earthquakes are the same as those that play out during human conflicts. She shows how cities grow in the same in-formational ways that galaxies evolve and how the dynamic in-formational forms that pervade ecosystems are identical to the informational structures of the Internet and our social behaviors. Demonstrating how information is physically real, the author explores how consciousness connects us to the many interconnected layers of universal in-formation, making us both manifestations and co-creators of the cosmic hologram of reality. She explains how Quantum Mechanics and Einstein’s Theory of Relativity can at last be reconciled if we consider energy-matter and space-time as complementary expressions of information, and she explores how the cosmic hologram underlies the true origin of species and our own evolution.
Concurring too with ancient spiritual wisdom, the author offers solid evidence that consciousness is not something we “have” but the fundamental nature of what we and the entire Universe are. With this understanding, we can each transform our own lives and help co-create and in-form the world around us.
Our interview was wide ranging and we talked about a variety of fascinating subjects and she is wonderful.
#cosmichologram #lawofattraction #realityrevolutionWelcome to the reality revolution. I’m so excited to have Jude curve on today. Jude Kurban is a cosmologist, the planetary healer, the writer of amazing book, the cosmic hologram. And I’m excited to have her here today. We can talk a little bit about her ideas of the universe as a hologram and unity and a bunch of other great topics that integrate with the reality revolution. Welcome to the reality revolution, Jude. Brian, it’s great to be with you and, and, and all our listeners and thanks for the invite. Absolutely. So, um, having finished this book a couple of times now, it really is a, it feels like, like a love letter to the universe in many ways about how beautiful and wonderful the creation of the unit when you get done reading this, you can’t walk away without just being, just impressed by how amazing the universe is on so many levels as the way it’s created and it’s nature. That was my first impression. I came away just, wow, there’s a lot more to it than I had thought. And what inspired you in, tell us, tell the listeners who maybe haven’t read about your book a little bit, uh, what, uh, what inspired you to write this book and tell us a little bit more about it. Well, thank you. I mean, I, I wanted to write this book when I was fully as old cause when I was four years old, I started experiencing universe in the way that I write about in the cosmic hologram and our universe. That is a great thought. Oh, the great thing. Um, a creation of cosmic mind of which we are an innate part, a universe that is actually emerging from deeper non-physical realms. That causation, right? Give us the damn phones with the Mitt. Um, multidimensional, the inventories and universe that so exquisitely set up that literally takes this to evil as a unified identity because that’s what and how has experienced reality from that very early age. But of course, you know, 60 odd years later and having gone through a very scenic route to this point, um, scientific evidence is only really now catching up with not just my experiences but the experiences of many, many different peoples rather than the linear and universal wisdom teachings and spiritual traditions. So the book really offers the evidence for that convergence is you saying spirituality into an end to group model of the nature of reality. And it really is a love letter to the universe and love letters some arises from it’s, it’s amazing, uh, on so many levels. You really do a great job of documenting, uh, and you come away just amazed. And you mentioned in the last chapter about your experience, how you started to have these things, these visions of, can you explain that a little bit of, of the universe? Um, and I thought, yeah, yeah. I mean, first of all, I felt it was really important to wait until the last chapter does the last chapter, right? I was like, Oh, this, and this is almost a perfect first chapter, but it ended up perfect. Right? Yeah. I can give you a rye. I know that the TA, you know, when I was writing it, but I was feeling it’s either at the beginning of the end piece and that was at the end is that my earlier books, my only five books do share some of the inner and outer journeys of discovery and, and, and, you know, discovering realization and understanding about reality, but then very much for the folks that already get it right. And what I was guided to offer is a book for the folks who haven’t yet go speak or who say, look, I’m open to this, but I want the evidence. Right? And so if I did put the my experiences right up front, I think a lot of those folks would have said, no, this is not for me. But by the time his Euston, we get to the end of the book, I’ve laid out all the evidence that, you know, mind and match and really find that mind and consciousness aren’t something we have than literally what we have the whole world are. And so by that point to introduce my own experiences just to, I felt like to complete the book and really offer an invitation to the next book even deeper to this new adventure, this ancient. So yeah, it started when I was four years old. But in issues being on a lifetime of experiences and understanding and a deep experiencing all reality as literally a cosmic call, you know, realities real right? Justice for hologram. There’s nothing separate in tiny parts. The parts are in the hole. So you know, reality is real of what I really wanted to exploration. Brooke is the separation is an invention, right? Great. Because I’ll think strive our behaviors. So if we believe in separation, guess what? You know? Yeah. And he did a fabulous job of that. Even though people say that it’s kind of a cliche and you established and explain why that is important in the book. Explain. So for people that maybe don’t understand the hologram idea is that even in the smallest part is reflection of the whole. The idea of Indra as web, that and every little molecule and element is a reflection of the entire universe. And everywhere you go you can see a reflection of it, which is why the design is so grand. Am I explaining that correctly? You explained it beautifully. I mean, and it’s also, this also is based on um, you know, literally holographic principle because some years ago, you know, he really, the holographic principle is understanding that it’s not just on manmade or human main holograms, um, that are cool but then creates itself or the cosmos creates universes as, as holograms because they are the most incredible way by which the whole can be expressed in every part. And in terms of science, this whole adventure of understanding our universe as of started with asking question about black holes. And the question that was being asked is what happens to the inflammation as embodied by a star? I must’ve star what at the end of its life, it collapses to black hole when the gravity’s so powerful that it goes at the polls in words. Just such an extent that a point arises where even light conscious has black hole and what was being real, what’s being realized is that all that inflammation doesn’t disappear within the event. So goes with vectorize this, you know, like being self conscious game. Right? But he find she held on that surface, on that event to provide their, it doesn’t mean that it’s, it may be gobbledy goop, but it’s not lost. It’s scrambled. It’s like it’s like eggs, scrambled egg in information trans, but it’s, it’s bad. So, um, that really is holographic because a hologram takes information on a two dimensional screen and then through line through the project exactly that object as a three dimensional hologram. So what the holographic principle when it’s scaled up of that call to the whole little unit is showing us that what we call three dimensional group here is a three D space, three dimensional space is holographic inclination rejected from its boundary and held on that boundary. And what rod does is say that, you know, I always wondered why space expanded. It has to, space has to expand and time has to grow as in formation to be expressed within your parents. All units. Beautiful. Right? So as it’s great to talk to a physicist. So I’m talking about black holes. I want to talk about that a little bit. Some physicists will argue that we’re, I’m on the other side of a black hole. The universe is, I don’t, it’s I, I’m scared to talk physics because I’m definitely not a physicist. And you’d say when you go on YouTube, you hear people talk physics and they don’t know anything about their taught. So now I’m talking about physics. So help me to understand there’s this wonderful concept that, that the universe may be on the other of a black hole, right? Is that, is that, am I understanding that there’s a possibility there is a possibility? Is there a possibility that behind every black hole is an entire universe? The way that it seems more likely to occur is that, and this is probably needed to be what’s called super massive black holes, cause flight calls come in two main scandals. They come at this massive star that’s collapsed, right? But they also come in what’s called super massive black holes, which comprise millions and sometimes hundreds of millions of steps, stellar masters. There’s one at the center of our galaxy. We’re almost sure of that. Right? And that’s a different, that is a bigger, fewer pervasive, much, much, much bigger. It’s much bigger beast unless seems to be super must’ve black holes at the center of menus. Not all Alex, that’s still an unfolding story. But the conditions at the center of a supermassive black hole, or obviously even more extreme than are at the center within a sort of a stellar Blackboard, there’s an extension to general relativity that was put forward by one of my mentors, Dennis Schomer. And it’s called the E C K S hypothesis. Yes. And it’s the, um, it’s, it’s the name of four different physicists beginning with Einstein and ending with Sharma. And what they postulated was that when conditions get even more extreme than in a stellar black hole, and this is costing theoretical, right? Of course. That’s the, the, the truly there’s a torsion, there’s that, there’s a, there’s a screw effect due to the spin of fundamental particles themselves then act as a screw effect that could actually go beyond what we call space time and bought new universes off on the other side, on the other side. And that would mean, yeah. And so that instead of birthing another black hole, they would essentially both have white hole or what’s called a white. All right. So reason view that the birth of our universe, bringing in some inflammation from its CRE birth state might be actually such a light bulb pole. So the big bang could be the result of a black hole. It could be the result of this, this bodying off from a previous universe into yes, what we’ve been calling the big bang. Amazing. So that makes the university a bunch of different universe. We’re constantly budding universities all over the place. Okay. Grumpy. Okay. Yeah. Let’s talk about parallel universities. I’ve had experiences where I thought, uh, you know, that that seemed like parallel. You know, you talk about multidimensionality in the book but don’t really talk. So what is, what is your perspective on the many worlds theory and, and, uh, and how it interacts with holographic. I’d love to get your, your, your idea of that. Okay. Can I just go back one step before winters? Yes, please. You mentioned the big bang and as you know in the book I say it wasn’t big and it wasn’t a right because we, it was tiny. Of course it wasn’t, it wasn’t infinitely tiny. It was fine. Nightly timing. But also when we think of a bang, I say bang to you, what comes to mind? An explosion. Yeah. Chaos. An explosion. And it wasn’t that and it was not that. So I talked more about the first moment of the big right. Right. The customer so ordered and so exquisitely fine tune that continues. It’s far more like that ancient Vedic, ancient Indian tradition, um, off the big breath of breath or Brahman. So that I just, it’s not an, it’s not chaos and an explosion where everything’s happening. It’s perfect order that’s expanding on a regular basis. And that’s how space expands at time. And as a rule, informational content and complexity, simplicity to complexity. It’s a, it’s amazing. I love your description of it. It makes more sense to me in my mind when I think of it, but so, um, but yes, there’s definitely, there’s definitely arguments among physicists about parallel universes. Uh, there’s certainly, okay, let’s start with this. There’s certainly an information field of possible universes as we maneuver through whatever space we’re in. There’s infinite universes in an information field, at least an a minimum, right? There doesn’t have to be a physical parallel universes, but there is a universe, there’s an information field that carries information of, well, universities does no evidence for that. It seems to be rather than what seems to be happening from the editors, is that all universes, ours in any ambulance ministry, urgent phenomena of cosmic mind constantly grind that, you know, some people would call it God or great mystery or great spirit, but a cosmic mind that is of itself and internal, right? And then what seems to be the case, and again this, this comes absolutely aligned with ancient spiritual traditions, especially in ancient India, is that universe is arises going through wards in the vine to the cosmos. And then maybe great thoughts, perhaps the last a moment or maybe news or billions, right? And that there seems to be an ongoing, that the universe not moving as the cosmos learns about itself. Sort of differentiating right now on that basis and that basis of multidimensionality with different levels of inflammation, right? Cause consciousness expresses itself notice rendered thing too, but is meaningful in full nature. Right? And certainly for all universe, the universal alphabet from which that meaning is, is combined and brought together is through digital information courses. Right? But it’s not random. Again, it’s making for information, relationships, dynamic, CPAP, the difference between multidimensional realities [inaudible] he’s the people who can forward with a hypothesis. Did so because they could not understand why arguments were so amazingly fun. Shoot. Correct. Speaking. Right? And so if you get as least slowed, it’s set. Our universe is so fine. Cheap. That is the laws of physics are relationships that they have. Voting what different in one part, in a thousand tree trillion, right? Oh, universe would not exist, let alone so what? You’ve got a two premises. You’ve got a universe that is meaningful and therefore coming out of cosmic mind is a great, we got our universe random meaningless. While the intent of the 27 so many, many DNA parallel universes of this one being the one we’re having this conversation, but probably a thousand trillion, trillion other universes or even mold where we’re not quite having this conversation. Right? Oh, you don’t want, I had fun, but the mochi really drops away because it can’t just operate on the level of Brian and myself having a conversation, a thousand trillion, trillion, different ways, every constant moment. The last 30.8 billion years would also spawn off trillion trillion universes from right. And so for many physicists that the, the sheer complexity of that almost, there’s an underlying that that can’t be the expansion. There’s a, there’s an underlying bias against that particular theory just because of this. It’s illogical. It was for the consciousness. It was a way to avoid meaning unconscious. It was a way to keep consciousness out of the conversation, right? Because if you’ve got consciousness, which is the elephant in the room, you know, from the time of the constant pioneers and the the and relativity, right? Feinstein, not for max plant, but for many others it was like, okay, this is really interesting. Now let’s not talk about, let’s ignore the evidence won’t until now that any more, but the parallel universe hypothesis because there’s no evidence for it, right? No evidence for it. And I think most people now, it’s just, it’s just one of those side adventures. It’s possible, but unprovable you’re saying that [inaudible] you’re not just provable. Well, I would say it’s counter provable in ascending. It’s impossible. No, no, no, no. Because if some evidence came forward tomorrow that showed it, then I hope as a good science test, I follow where evidence led. Right? But there’s no evidence of it that the evidence is to the contrary. The evidence is coming forward so powerfully is this sense of universe that exists and goals as a, as a unified entity. So beautifully set up, which it exists almost to have. All right. All that we’re finding is that it’s, it’s a great thought. So mind and consciousness aren’t something we have. Evidence is showing that bond a consciousness literally is what we on the whole world are. So the [inaudible], so the um, the double slit experiment is showing going all the way back to that. So much of physics has evolved from those beginnings, but they’re still, they’re still exploring it. Uh, we, we do know that particles have a wave function and that, and in that wave function, it carries the information of all of its probabilities. Right? So there is at least, okay, let’s see. Is that it carries on, not infinite. They’re not infinite, but they’re there. Maybe that’s a misnomer. There is not infinite, but there is multiple different probabilities that are carried in the information of that Wavefront of that part. Right. That’s an a mistake I think people make when they talk about this, there is an infinite possibilities. There’s a set number of probabilities within that particle and then it collapses to one through the observation. That’s right. But what, what then we get into a conundrum about is who’s the observer, right? Is the universe the observer can be, is can the universe be the observer when we look out at this? And that’s a question. I don’t see people as talking as much. That’s interesting. Right. And that’s really what the cosmic hologram and the evidence is showing that, you know, it doesn’t require a human being in a lab to make the observation or to have that measurability of a continental thing for our universe to exist and follow more as a unified entity. Something called Bell’s theorem applies erect. And what Bell’s theorem says is that for quantum mechanics to work at all, our entire universe needs to be known, locally connected. Correct. Now that was seem to be a foundational understanding of contemplates six, but over the years people will try and find loopholes in it. Yeah. And those loopholes are being shut down and shut down and shut down progressively. So this idea of non local or the universe essentially knowing itself, honestly as an entity is awfulness. Um, first of all was not fully accepted and the norm of quality was shown to be not just at the quantum scale in the lab. It grew to be able to go locally and tango, organic molecules and small diamonds. But there was still this issue about Israeli is proven at universal levels, right? So 2018, a group of researchers at MIT re able to do something other than this, absolutely extraordinary. They were able to, Nolan Vokery entangled photons of light in your bar tree, right? Just all night, come 600 light years away. That non-local entanglement triggered by the right of two quasars, which is very, very powerful. Galactical checks. One of those was really 8 billion light years, although was 12.2 billion light years away. So the whole universe is entangled. Yes, the entire universe is intended and that, and so, okay, so using this wonderful idea because uh, it means that we can perhaps it can, we someday communicate on larger and larger distances and faster means we’re using this holographic idea. I mean, with entanglement we can go faster than the speed of light, right? Yeah, no, no. There’s a, this is the beauty of our universe. Existent evolves as a unified entity, so it knows itself, right? Non-locally okay. But within space time, the flow of time has an innate causality that is, that cannot be violated. That’s never been violent except when to when entanglement as spooky action from a distance entanglement. Entanglement is not about sending a signal. It’s like it’s connecting that the boundary, right? It’s not connecting through space time. So no signal can go faster than speed. Delight. If it did the flow of time, we lost 13.8 billion years of the flow of time would never have occurred. Right? Because that causality would it be violating you? You understand my question though? Two things are entangled. Can we, can we communicate with, we had a spaceship in and by Jupiter, can we use the idea of entanglement to communicate? Oh great. You fit only if some way it did not violate causality. So for example, what this does is it supports what my friend and colleague, Dean Raden and myself refer to a supernormal phenomena such as telepathy and remote viewing. Those do is they don’t violate causality. Okay. [inaudible] space time. You’re good. But this is us being able to access there place. Do you think? I don’t know. Is there a place outside of space time? Yeah. Okay. Because I’m universe, our universe, isn’t it? What’s called an emergent phenomenon. So if there’s a chunk and right here, there could be, you could look down and see spacetime as a separate phenomenon. No separate, not separate. But if you think of, if you think of a balloon, perhaps if you were standing, you know, outside a balloon and you’ve got your hands on it, boundary that the room could look inside the inside the balloon is what we call energy METRANS space. The time right outside the balloon is essentially a very different concept of time. And we’re beyond space. So when people talk about angels and their guides and all the rest of it, anyone who’s had those communications, I suspect will tell you very similar thing. But the sense of time is very directed, right? It’s coming from outside of the balloon. Yeah. That’s my fat side. It’s coming from almost like the fuzzy surface of the blue. Right? Yeah. Very interesting. I love it. So, uh, it’s the comp, the, the ideas of your book go and resound on so many different levels. So consciousness, everything is conscious on some level because of the holographic effect, right? I mean, everything, even the smallest thing is conscious. It’s a question of, I mean, I got, I got held up by this by another dear friend, professor, maximal morons, and he wrote a book, a seminal book called understanding consciousness. So if you go to anybody to ask about the terminology of consciousness, Max’s you man. Okay. And he, he’s very clear on the differentiation between mine and consciousness. Okay? And anyone who meditates, anyone who actually goes into altered States, anyone who really goes into that perception of oneness, of cosmic mind will, I think, understand that, you know, when we have a thought, when we’re aware of something, that’s when we conscious of it, right? But when we’re in that note, we notice that the mystics talk about that is what our many folks called pure mind consciousness is the levels of awareness, not the way he is on the top of an ocean. Droplets of the waves that emanate from this profound. Sure. Do you think that planets and have a mind or consciousness, do you think that the sun does or galaxies, when you go and you start moving up as the universe gets to know itself from the smallest to the largest, you think that there’s like an independent consciousness for our galaxy and our sun and the planet or, I wouldn’t say it’s independent, but I do feel that it is individuated. It is difficult because again, going back to ancient tradition, the Chinese, um, chain or chain talks about in the beginning is the wrong, the wrong becomes to to become three. I’m from the three, 10,000 things are born. So what we’re talking about is the non, that duality of customer mind, the infinite and eternal cosmic mind, that non-duality differentiating itself into the appearance of universities and within universes for themselves differentiating their experience into stars and planets and people in trees. So beautiful. That mind and consciousness isn’t what we have. It’s what we are in the whole world is stars. Planets, leaves, trains as love, as painful. Half that level in individuals, that intelligence, because there’s a neat intelligence. I knew those is in the emergent, so very different levels of awareness. But inflammation is all pervasive. And that information in hyphen formation actually inform score that we call the reality of our universal. So you had the a wonderful forward from urban Laszlo. Urban Laszlo is the one that termed the tr reality revolution. I stole it from him and from one of his books. He’s a wonderful writer and he likes, he likes to write about the Akashic record. He’s very, um, and so I wanted to get your perspective on that. Coming from the cosmic hologram, there’s this, there’s this record that’s possibility that a space that has information about everything, can we access that? Can we access them? Okay, yes. I fear we cannot believe we can be you accessing the, when you were four years old, you were accidentally accessing this fractal. Yes. So let’s talk about that a little bit. Just sort of continue to explore it at many, many different levels. I have a sense, I mean, I don’t, I don’t call it the cash it record per se. Absolutely a loaded term. In some wiggles, 80 days it’s somewhat loaded, but you know it’s very, very similar if not the same. And if you think the holographic boundary of what we call specs continuing to expand and the reason it needs to expand is to and body ever more bits of information, right? And can be experienced within it. So parent’s face time, that boundary is essentially the Kashi record, right? That boundary issue and nothing that’s actually so nothing that’s manifested within space time from that first moment of our universe, he’s essentially lost. Everything that is manifested is hell. Does that essentially as as as a record on that orthographic surface, which is why space has to expand, right? Because it’s not overwritten it just the informational content of our universe increases every scale moment that has gone on for the last 13.8 years. Do you think that there is some level of technology we can reach where we can directly access this record to get information from it? I mean, that’s a crazy idea, but you people have talked about accessing it and people get hunches and intuitions and they maybe can trace in an urban Laszlo has books about people expect. So I wanted to get your perspective of that. Yeah, thank you. I’ve contributed to to some of those books, my own experience. So yeah, when you say technology, maybe it’s not technology, I don’t know. Or that the mind is a technology, right? Exactly. Exactly. I mean, as microcosmic cocreators of our universe as intelligence, you know, we are children of our universe, right? And therefore we are, because our universe is innately unified. We all microcosms, we’re like cells in its body. So yes, we have the ability to do it. The thing is most of us cause ourselves down as close ourselves or all closed down by our societies, our families, our friends, our teachers. All that says this is nonsense because the mainstream scientific paradigm, until recently has been saying this realms the our new reality, right? Separation is, it is. It’s true nature. Consciousness is something that accidentally arises as a result of accidental biological evolutionary forces. And so no meaning, no purpose, no ability to do this Sukin Alma phenomena, mystical experiences from the manual and now leading edge science. He’s actually saying no, that reduction is materialist separatists. Paradigm is not only limited, it is fundamentally and says literally turned on its and this new paradigm of holographic inflammation, cosmic hologram paradigm is coming forward and converging with universal wisdom teachings into an integral model of consciousness. It’s a conscious cosmology. It’s amazing. So, but if uh, if you were to recommend to me, Hey, I want to access, is it just through meditation? Is, is there a particular that you, that you have found or from readings of it that we can access this information from this hologram to get greater understanding? I mean, is it just through meditation? Is it through prayers or dreams? All the old, the old, the old. I think the first thing is to be open to it. Because if you said this is nonsense, you know, the old mainstream scientific paradigm, separatists reductions, which is, that’s the one I’m sticking with, then the chances are you will never even not open the door to the possibility. There’s expenses, right? What I’m trying to do because me at hologram is to really bring all the evidence into this new framework, but show me evidence that paradigm is wrong and that, you know, offering a new, are you understanding? I’m a much grander understanding of reality, all role or purpose. So from that understanding, even if you don’t get the science, if you just open, okay, the evidence is is good, I’m going to act as it and your own real self. In my experience. Just that willingness to engage with these other dimensions on of possibility, you know? Have you ever experienced something that you see as a synchronicity every day? Thank you. Yeah. And you pay attention to them. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Because for me, synchronicities are waiting. They are showing those that that old paradigm, because the old Pardot has no way, no way bringing in synchronicities, it’s just got, no, it’s just not the framework. But this new framework of the Cosmi homegrown on the holographic, you know, informational, a paradigm of consciousness naturally has because synchronicities aren’t, they don’t violate causality. They bring this moment into the here and now of a universe that literally knows itself and is there free to North Adams. And so, you know, if you’re unconscious synchronicities as you do, I do it. Then they all the most amazing, wonderful, enriching and Dory, you know, for nominee, you could have a hopeful, and if you’re open to synchronicities, the chances are you’re to other guidance to hearing and listening to your dream violence, to opening up baby through meditation to guidance in other ways. And so many people have these experiences. The big issue I think is that we’re, we’re fine to share them, right? Yeah. A lot of people don’t tell other people when they have have experiences. Right. It seems to me that it’s time for us to share those because when we share them, we begin to realize just how incredibly common are they are part of our new reality. And they are, you talked a lot about unity and on some of your other stuff. I wanted to get your perspective and and S T to share this, this message and idea of unity and, and what it means. Uh, does that question make sense? Yeah, of course. Okay. Well, yeah. I mean when I wrote the cosmic hologram, we published it. We put the, launched it, it was published, but when you launched it in UK, where I met at the house of the roads in London, which for Lucia book is a bit a cool, it was great. And what we did is we brought together a group of 19 and change me and we each share this story of the cosmic hologram and we called its framework a whole world because we talk about all world views, no wealth themes, all the stories we tell about ourselves and the nature of reality, right? The stories we tell the stories, we knew our worldviews drive our beginnings. And it seems to me that collectively our world views if you can segment. So our fragmented movies drive our dysfunctional behaviors if we’re unable to, as to where we know they bought [inaudible]. So also as a healer, it seems to me that if we just try and deal with the symptoms of all collective, which are dysfunctional, but we don’t deal with the cause and heal the cause about this, so we’ll be able to sort of help each other be it. We’ll be able to call for interview with them. But unless we go back to the fundamental cause of our collective destiny, which I believe is our fragmented notions, [inaudible] separate notions. So unity for is healing is dis ease into evidence-based, experientially based understanding of unified reality and unity expressed as diversity rather than fragmentation express through separation. That’s like turning around and coming from this sense of oneness and wholeness. And you caught it back in coding unity. But unity is without uniformity, not the wrongness expresses itself. And one, the civil union arising from the ultimate oneness of the cosmos expresses itself in Roger [inaudible] and radical. So you consider yourself a futurist. If we look out into the future, as we use these new understandings of the universe, what kind of a future do you see and how can we make it better? Well. Um, I’m not saying I see any further than anyone else. I’ve just been doing this a long time. And I see themes and trends and possibilities, right? I’ve just come back from a place called Findhorn in Scotland and I’ve been facilitating the course that will spirited business and I’ll just also come back from Amsterdam when I spoke to 750 people about wisdom. And what those trends are showing is that the old way of conducting business organizing corporations are fundamentally non suspending because century that treating everything from this material separation perspective, so human beings are causing the machine that human resources. So those ways of business have resulted in, in the young sustainability, where are we on now? People and a lot of leading businesses realizing that that is, they can’t go on them. What they’re doing is that become more, more open to this message. But the trouble is you can’t white wash or greenwash or purpose wash, you ha it’s from the inside out. So well I like being invited to get involved with any colleagues. The fun working in transformational leadership is actually responding to those invitations. So we know we’re not looking for deep trouble. This, what do you do about it? And on my basis, I’m say if you’re serious, but if you’re not serious, go do something. But I’m no phone. I’m not getting involved enough people or enough business, honestly, authentically, really wanting desperate to change and then realize that change has to come home, not just just from within the organization, within themselves. Every now and then they confirm that inside up they can actually empower an authentic purpose, which is far more sustainable and more beneficial people. So that’s a future trend that we, in order to be humans and all of the, you know, the dystopian, the rest I feel is really positive. Yeah. And it’s not an argument for socialism, it’s just an argument for unity. There can be differentiation within it. Some people will say, Oh, that just sounds like an argument. It’s not right. So it’s not as, it’s not a political argument. No, nothing to do with politics. But you’ve heard that people argue that it’s political. It’s not nice. No, it’s rubbish. And nobody knew. York thinks is political. Right. Sadly, I do find amongst my American friends and I come to the States, but it’s not going over it guys. And the thing with socialism is that an UN, you know, communism or socialism, it’s tried to do an equality of outcomes. And what this is doing is two things. First of it is about opportunity, equality of opportunity, right? Different businesses, just like different people will take that opportunity and respond differently. And that is not socialism, but that is equality of opportunity and education of environment of all of that. But the outcomes will be different. Second, it’s an organization that acts like a healthy ecosystem and healthy ecosystem. And how’s the ecosystem? Como corporation trumps, and I use that word very carefully. Competition. If you look at the way in which biological evolution trends from simplicity to complexity, you find much more cooperation, but then you find different functionalities, different missions, different, you know, ways to be healthy, right? Right. And some, some of the leading edge companies, I’ll do what they called bio biomimicry or they’re actually learning from nature because nature got rid of waste 3.8 billion years ago, right? It really is because it runs on some, you know, we talk about technologies and we’re moving into solar power technologies or renewables, but nature invented solar panel flight hundreds of million years ago. It’s called burns. So it’s this sort of sense that, you know, it is, it is sunlight, it is renewables and we can all do that and be like, but by amendment CRE, we can have a much healthier organizational environment and it’s then to put political labels on it is so ingenuous and unhelpful. Absolutely. So a very popular topic on my podcast is the law of attraction and your, you know, your chapter on co-creating. It talks about some of these issues when we understand the universe as a hologram, we do play a role in co-creating the universe. And I wanted to talk to you a little bit about that. You have some different principles. So I want to cocreate my universe. What, can you give me some advice based on your understandings using your book, cosmic hologram? Um, how do I go about doing that? Well, first of all, I say, I think you need to get over yourself. As my mom used to say, because you are not the sole co-creator. The universe. Yeah. A Coke reader. Not that, not solipsistic only. No, no, no, no, no. Oh go. Don’t get me down that path. Um, but microcosm, you know, seven, a billion plus of us walking this beautiful country home of ours is an individuated expression of our as intelligence and as a microcosm of that microcosm. But yes, each of us co-create our experience of reality right now our thoughts, our emotions have profound effects on our physical, on physiology, but also we all, because we are inflammation and everything is inflammation, right? We’re radiating, which conceiving with, you know, trust Mitzi inflammation all the time in 200 vinyl, whether we know it or not, because this is the key thing, our level of conscious awareness and we talked about bind, but consciousness is where that comes to surface of awareness is a tiny part of what’s happening at different levels. But we’re not consciously aware of our bodies. You know, we don’t think we’re breathing, we just breathe. Right? Oh, it is. But because it’s part of our informational being. Yeah. So [inaudible] is distributed intelligence and informational field is always in communication shit, bugs within itself. And so in that sense, yes, the principles of co-creativity or co-creative principles are very similar to the law of attraction, about resonance, about attention, you know, and, and if we are what we are within, we see with that, right? Right. If we’re optimists, we’ll experience the world in an optimistic way. If we’re fair based, we then we’ll play that out. So all of those work that, the thing that I might take issue with the or traction is that we can hold some very ego based novels. Well, I want, I want a bigger house. I was at flushed year car is that, and when we start to go on that ImageNet are discovering and that journey from perhaps a sense of separation and loneliness to a sense of aloneness, we then have bigger picture and aligned to overwhelmness. We changed by experience. We change what we have school, we change, we seek to attract. And instead of something that is more materialistic, we seek to attract really a high purpose to flow through us, which seek to attract ways of serving the world. We seek to attract how we can be a soul model and for hope in action. I’m done. I’m done. So the law of attraction works, but it’s very much about what we’re trying to, what we choose to try. Another thing I would take from, from the, the holographic model from your book is how important might little actions are. Your tiniest actions can make a big difference. Now I, I started to look at everything that I do on a holographic perspective. And so even my tiniest auctions can reflect on big. If I’m not cleaning my office, then that’s important. You know, all the every little thing. Am I, am I right? So we can take that teaching. The little things matter when you have the co the holographic perspective. Yeah. Because for several things, first of all, the cosmic hologram in the way its processes operate or what’s called nonlinear. So time action can have huge ripple effects. Yeah. Which we don’t know what they are. You know, um, an act of kindness, a small act of kindness can actually change someone’s life. So instead of them going on to do X, they go on to do dumb. So nobody’s too small to make a difference. Well, right. And three, an emotion action has some effect. Give ourselves a break. Don’t go heavy with that. Okay. But it’s easy to get heavy with that if it is. Yeah. It sounds like maybe you had gone down that road for a couple of days. Oh, and when you’re writing a book, I can imagine. Cool. It’s a cool, nice, you know, I hate to be, you know, back to the blend, but, but, but you know, like it’s just, we’re here as a journey in a sense. We’re here to involve not just as part of an evolving universe, but in our lines too long on levels of awareness or levels of engagement. And you know, it might experience the lighter, we call that the more joyous ho it just, just a wellbeing. Yeah. Right. It’s so easy to get caught up in it when we all are aware that big things need to change. It’s very easy to almost get overwhelmed by that. So what we do at our unity community, cause justly that unity and what we did with the house roads, we’ve now grown to over 900 local change makers, each with their own network, each with their own, you know, organization or whatever. All coming from unity in diversity. And what we do is we talk about acting local, feeling, global thinking, cosmic. It’s wonderful. I love that everything is, you know, everything we are doing everything we matters. And, and that’s one reason we see everything reflected back to us. So often. And tiny behaviors we end up seeing a reflection. It’s almost like we’re living in a mirror. Yeah. They also culture as a hologram. Cause that’s what that does. So those eight principles of, of cocreation that you mentioned in the book, you know, there’s a principle of resonance because everything is in that inflammation of residents or relationship with everything else. And yes, reflection. So we do see what’s happening now. Right, right. I think there’s one of the principles of the balance, right? Yeah. Yeah. And that seems to be very powerful when we’re dealing with this balance. The universe seems to be designed to always move in towards balance. It does. Because, you know, going back to the chin, the wall becomes too, right. So finding that balance, whether it’s the masculine feminine, whether it’s a light shade, whether it’s the plus minus, then we get them, we get that resolution, we get that respiration that we could cope on. And in that resolution, something sort of emerges from that balance that is intensely creative, right. And intensely. You know, it’s the way in which almost I feel consciousness really invites us to find that balance of flow from that path. So you had said you had another book coming out. I’m excited for you guys that, that’s after this. What is your next book going to be about? I’m writing it now. It’s writing me now. Oh, it’s writing you. Oh, my post ride me. I couldn’t relate that. Um, and it’s called Gaya or story continues on from where the cosmic hologram and so causes, so it begins with a premise of um, bind a consciousness and something we have. It’s what we in the whole world are. So I’ll Geier off time. The tree home is a living and evolving planet in a living and vulnerable universe where that definition of living is full existence. So it goes back to your point about some loose stones. So it’s way beyond the sense of Byron logical line. It’s, it’s actually seeing our universe as this living evolving is great, wonderful adventure or they exist to, you know, [inaudible] Gaya from the beginning of all universe and all her relations. Oh, that sounds wonderful. So I the, it’s been a real joy to um, to talk with you. Um, everybody need the world though. You have a website where people can go get more information, the whole world-view.org and you can get information about some of the stuff that you were just talking about. Do you have any other, I always like to ask in any recommendations of books, uh, that we, that we eat. It doesn’t even have to be one of yours. Something that, you know, the, the, the viewers and uh, did that transformative books or anything like that that you, you are, it doesn’t even have to be, uh, it can be fiction, but, uh, I always like to ask somebody of your stature if you have any books that you can recommend. Oh my gosh, you should see my library. [inaudible] very much like mine. I, I you love books like I do. So, yeah, it depends where people really want to have an entry point into this. Um, if people are interested in the way that ancient wisdom guides us now because what’s happening is leading edge science cause I’m writing about is literally converging with ancient wisdom. I don’t know any more insightful books than the ancient Indian writings. You Pammy Schatz. Oh yes. And there’s a wonderful book by a gentleman, Costa Riane called the wisdom of the Rishi is R. I. S. H. I. S. okay. 3:00 AM and who loves the cosmic hologram for writes about the wisdom of these ancient Indian writings. So beautiful Bible says simply that they, to say the same thing, that bind a consciousness is the nature of reality. So that’s a really powerful way and into meditation because of course the ancient Indian tradition gave us meditative techniques. It gave us no sugar as a way of going too deeper into this experiential understanding of one. So I’d certainly invite or recommend. Okay. But that’s, that’s a really great foundation and framework to explore. No. As a writer, I just like to ask outside of this about getting a better idea of your daily schedule. You write every day. Do you write when, when it comes to you and you write in the mornings or night? I as a fellow writer, I’d love to get an idea of your writing rituals. If only Brian, if only I, I’ve been trying to find, you know, the space to, the guy has a story to write me for a good year. Um, the interesting thing was that when I wrote the customer hollowed ground and when we launched it at the house of Lords, I thought I was writing a book. It turns out I was co-founding a movement. Yeah. So what’s been happening since has been very much taking is sharing this message, but also finding that we’re linking up and lifting up with folks coming from unity in terms of transformation. We need to shift how we heal our relationship with Gaia, how we transform our educational systems. Because when we, you know, he know worldview changes everything. So it’s how do we take these through our politics, our organizations, our corporations, our education, how do we take it to support people who will try to help us? He no relationship with diet, to encourage people to experience Guyer as part of this. So that has really taken up 90% of my time when I come back from California next week when I’m speaking that the science and nonduality conference. Well, I’m in California, so welcome. Thank you. Thank you. I look forward to be with you. And when I come back from that, that is when I’m hoping try and I as a writer, I can’t dig into it. I have to go into the version on. So when you write, you just do big eight hour sessions or you don’t do a little bit at a time, you do it in everybody’s different. It’s always interesting, but I’d love to be able to write when I’m on the road because that would have made life a lot easier. I’d love to be able to write in airports or these people that write on the, I don’t know how they do it. Yeah, and I can’t do that and I need more than a day at a time. I need a good three days to really immerse myself so that what comes through for that, we’ll keep on writing. I’ll keep on reading. Your book is wonderful. It is a love letter to the universe, a great explanation of how the universe works, lot of profound understandings from it. It’s a really unique perspective and to get a better idea for everybody to understand unity and how connected we really are on so many different levels and thank you so much for coming on the show. It’s been a real joy. I’ve learned so much. Hopefully we can have you on again with your next book. And, uh, thank you so much, Jude. It’s been a pleasure. Brian has been a great pleasure for me to add. Thank you so much, and I’ll be delighted to come that when ghastly does. Right. I can’t wait. That sounds wonderful. Thank