Interview with Dr. Dawson Church – Writer and Expert in EFT, Epigenetics, Energy Psychology, Physics, Meditation || EP 113

In his foreword to Mind to Matter, Dr. Joe Dispenza calls Dawson Church a super mind. After you hear this interview you will see what Dr. Dispenza was talking about.

Dawson Church, PhD, is an award-winning author whose best-selling book, The Genie in Your Genes, has been hailed as a breakthrough in the field of epigenetics. Dawson has published numerous scientific papers, with a focus on the remarkable self-healing mechanisms now emerging at the intersection of emotion and gene expression. He applies these breakthroughs to health and athletic performance through, which is one of the largest alternative medicine sites on the web. Dawson was educated at Baylor University and Holos University, where he earned his doctorate under the tuition of Harvard-trained neurosurgeon Norm Shealy, MD, PhD, with whom he co-authored Soul Medicine: Awakening Your Inner Blueprint for Abundant Health and Energy. Dawson is editor emeritus of the peer-reviewed journal Energy Psychology: Theory, Research & Treatment, and founded the nonprofit Soul Medicine Institute to research and train practitioners in energy psychology.

Dawson works with businesses and sports teams to achieve peak performance.

You can read more about Dawson Church at

It was an honor to interview Dr. Church, I was super nervous at the beginning and I have such great respect for his work. Dawson was so nice and easy to interview. I think you will enjoy it. I learned so much. We talked about proof that the brain effects matter, heart coherence, morning routines and many other topics.

Watch my previous episode which reviews Dawson’s book mind to matter

Get Dawson’s book mind to matter here

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Welcome to the reality revolution. It is an exciting day on the reality revolution podcast. I have Dr. Dawson Church, one of my very favorite writers. I have to admit I’m a little bit nervous, but let me tell you a little bit about Dr. Church. Dr. Church is an award winning author. Uh, he, he wrote the genie in your genes. It’s been hailed as a breakthrough in the field of epigenetics. He has published numerous scientific papers with a focus on remarkable self healing mechanisms now emerging at the intersection of emotion and gene expression. He applies these breakthroughs to health and athletic performance through EFT which is one of the largest alternative medicine sites on the web. Dawson was educated at Baylor University and Holos University where he earned his doctorate under the tuition of Harvard trained neurosurgeon, norm Shealy with whom he coauthored soul medicine, awakening your inner blueprint from abundant health and energy. Another great book I recommend Dawson is editor emeritis of the Peer Review Journal, energy psychology theory, research and treatment, a fantastic journal that you can actually get individual copies of on Amazon. And he founded the nonprofit soul medicine institute to research and train practitioners in energy psychology. Dawson works with business and sports teams to achieve peak performance. He no longer accepts private clients but instead refers them to certified practice owners at his site EFT universe. You can read more about one of my very favorite books is mind to matter and the reason it really stands out to me if I am having a discussion with doubters or people that don’t quite understand the idea of reality creation and the effect of the mind and thoughts on consciousness and they’ll say it’s just not true. It’s all who we, it’s. They’ve never really proven that thoughts have an influence on matter. It’s what you’re saying is it’s just all ridiculous. I say, no, you need to read this book mind to matter by Dawson Church. It is really well done book which evaluates a number of different research studies and analysis to show why our thoughts are changing the environment around us in more ways than we can imagine. This stuff that you come up with in this, in this book is profound. And so welcome to the reality revolution. I’m so excited to have you, Dr. Church, right? It’s such a pleasure to be here and just call me Dawson and uh, I’m as excited as you are and everyone else is about this stuff because when I first got into this, I didn’t know there was so much evidence, but our thoughts create our reality. So as I traced the science behind it, I became more and more astonished myself and I just share that enthusiasm and light in the book. So thank you. It’s easy for us to see, um, examples in our, in our lives when we, we think thoughts and things start happening, but sometimes it’s hard to prove we can feel it. We know that there’s some truth behind it. But then there’s always been this division between science and mysticism. As you talk a little bit about Andy, it did. The scientific community almost doesn’t want to believe that because it would a deeply affect a lot of research studies and a lot of things. And on the other hand, what you’ve done has gone beyond just the, the specific personal examples and looked at the scientific studies of how thoughts change reality. So I just want to talk a little bit about that. Um, so what was the first point in time when you were decided to write this book? What was the, the piece of evidence that really lit you up and said, I, I, we need to detail this and go over this some more so people can understand how thoughts can change reality. That’s a great question, Ryan. And um, there were several of those moments during writing the book and reading the research that led to the book that did just completely all me awe eve, just whether it was awesome and I just read those studies and realize they have profound implications for our worldview and what we regard as the limits of our human potential. And one of the ones, one of the studies that really just struck me forcefully was when I read, I, I’d heard, I’d heard a couple of accounts about how people could change the, um, way Geiger counters are recording. And so the idea that human beings could shift the, the, the, the rate of radioactive decay was really amazing because, um, like for example, in science, people need really accurate timing. They don’t just use analog or digital clocks because those can differ and they aren’t always accurate. They can speed up and slow down. And so, uh, in science we use a ton of plugs and some of these clubs use or radioactive substance schools, cesium and cesium is those pipes are accurate to within one second, every 4 million years. Now that’s a highly stable state of radioactive decay. Even though that substance is decaying by a certain amount and that that amount is so stable, it doesn’t change by more in one second and 4 million years. So when I began to read accounts that people could literally speed up a slowdown radiation, I was like, Hey, I was just like that, that, that’s, that’s remarkable. And then I began to find not just mentions of this, but research into this. And once he gung master, Dr Zinn, who I highlight in the book is able to speed up radioactive decay and slow down rate of k, uh, basically around 10%, either a in either direction. So here somebody using consciousness alone, not even touching the sample is able to this and that just blew my mind. And you actually did an experiment in the book, which was very fascinating. You found a thermometer that you could use a Geiger counter and get an exact reading on you. You went into meditation and then without touching the device you, uh, did that you attempted to re to increase the, the readings on it. And for an hour afterwards the readings were higher. And my right to tell me a little bit more yet there’s a picture in the book, you’re super excited and w and, and to me too, that was like a lot of the research is good, but this is a very specific example that is in controvertible that you had changed the radioactive decay for this thing in your thermometer. Just want to mention that a little. Yeah. And so after I read that research and traced a number of studies like that, I tried to interest various colleagues in replicating that experiment because I wanted to see if replications would yield that same ability to both slow down and speed up radioactive decay. And um, for whatever reason, the people I talked to, they had other research projects going was be years before they could get to where it, they weren’t that interested. So I thought, well it’s not that hard to do. You just order a Geiger counter, uh, digital Geiger counter any order at all. We spoke detector, a smoke detectors had this thing called amorous IOM in them and there’s little tiny little pellets like the size of the head of a pen, our radio, substance, substance, it’s, it’s radiation as so weak. But even if you hold the Geiger counter an inch or two away, it picks up nothing. You have to be right on hammer ECM pro to have an effect. Right. So I, the equipment isn’t expensive. I audited and I thought, I’ll just try this myself. And I tell the story kind of like a standup comedian would. I mean, I’m not trying to be all that serious about this experiment. It was a lighthearted prank, but it finally arrived. I set it on the kitchen table. I then then like held my hands around it and tried to make a change and I couldn’t let it happen. Nothing happened. I didn’t raise or lower the rate of radiography k but then I thought, well, let me just try and treat this thing as though this were a person I was intending to healing toward. So I headed into this meditative state, into this flow state. Now earlier in the book I talk about what happens in your brain in a flow state and very interesting and there’s something things happen in the brains of people in flow that are very different from the brains of people, not in flow. And that is that they become coherent. Your heart rate variability becomes coherent, your brain waves become coherent, and you’re in a very different physiological state when you’re in flow. So I entered that flow state and then I simply held my hands around the sample as though it were a person for who I am. I was intending healing and low and behold, the rate of radioactive decay speed it up dramatically. But I did that. Then I thought, well, RTI, cool, let’s see if I can slow this thing down now. So I then lb intention, I slow it down. And Bryan, nothing happened. Yeah. But I tried to slow down and only speed it up and then my wife came home from work and so he’s always my experimental subject of first resort. Great Country Sound, Huh? I’ve lost that last bit. The sound went out. Okay. Yeah, so, so my, my, my wife was there and she’s like subject, the first resort easily gives informed consent, I expect from what I was doing. I said, okay, now they’re owning you hold your hands around this thing and see what happens. And she’d read it, speed it up and nothing happened. But then I said, okay, think of your grandchildren now she’s, my wife is as a really calm human being and said, fill this here with love and thought of her grandchildren. She slowed it way down and it turned out that she was incapable of speeding it up, that she could quite easily slow it down. I can do just the opposite, so it’s just one of those those funny moments when he realized that a fairly much bigger effect on reality than we realize. Well, you mentioned something and we could go off on this fruit for a long time, but I’m fascinated by it. You mentioned that when the heart and mind kind of go into coherence, you’ve actually been involved in some studies with Dr Joe Dispenza where you evaluate people going into coherence and then the, the effects of that. I think there’s an interesting correlation. It seems like we’re able to influence with our thoughts more effectively according to Lynne McTaggart’s research also identifies that as well and your book as well, that there’s something that seems to happen when the heart and minder and coherence, I’ve had some an episodes about this. You also have a terrific story in the book at the beginning where you lose you, your, you’re working on your first book and you go out and as something, it sounds exactly like what I would do, you throw your keys in like, uh, in your jacket and you jump in the water and the ocean in Hawaii and you lose your keys. I mean in the ocean. So of course if that happened to most of us we would be freaking out. Cause you’re in Hawaii, you’re not, you know, and you’ve got to get these keys. But you in the, in your example, you, you relaxed and you focused, you made it a point to say that you focused on your heart when you just happen and the PR and then you can, you looked around the beach and then you found some people and there was, I believe a kid and his father and, and you asked him just something in your mindset, I need to ask, did you find anything when you were out in the water and the kid pulled up some keys. I’m starting to tell your story. I’m super nervous and I’m definitely talking too much but I wanted to but I wanted to talk about that because it was interesting cause your, your first thought in that moment, it wasn’t to just visualize or to pray, it was to focus on your heart. So and it all of these, uh, all of these great writers have talked about the heart and it’s becoming more and more is the heart the hardest thinking to the heart in conjunction with the mind seems to have greater power. And I I’d love to talk with you about that. You’ve actually been on the forefront of some research about this. Yeah. The hearts field is thousands of times stronger than the brains field. And so the heartless three and trains the brain, when you go into heart coherence and your heart rate variability comes to coherence, it triggers brain coherence. And the crucial question Brian, I was trying to answer here was what is the difference between the person who has good intentions and really has aspirations? Does visualization cause affirmation and nothing happens? What’s the gender, the person who is a super manifest or people who visualize something. And it manifests. What is the difference between person a and person B? I know lots of people who are fabulous benefits too. It’s like Joe Joe Dispense. I mean if he has a pension, it’s going to happen. Jack Canfield, many of these people, once they have an intention is really likely to happen, but then I know people, like my friends Sally and Sally has beautiful visions for her life or her relationship or children or the world and nothing she intends ever happens. I said, what’s the difference between Joe and Sally? And so that was like this question. That was those that almost done writing the book and I began to try and figure that out. I said, what is the difference between a job and a salary? We all are people who are like Sally who have high aspirations and their their visions just fall flat and then there are people who are really clear on their aspirations and their aspirations to happen. What is the difference between Joe and Sally? Exactly. Why does he answer? I discovered was coherence that Joe is meditating. Often Joe Meditates for two hours a day. People like I was talking about about one of my friends Kyle sees who’s a comedian, he meditates for more than two hours a day and you don’t need to meditate that long, but do you need to get into these really deep states of flow? What happens then is the heart is coherent and the brain is coherent together and that’s when intentions, when they are expressed, when they are formulated in that state of coherence, that’s what they have impact [inaudible] in the book that really just blew my mind was done by my friend Roland McCrady at heart math and he had people intend again that the DNA in a beaker, right? He’ll be her change in its molecular structure and with an advanced advanced spectrometer you can measure how tightly twisted those coils of DNA are in the sample as this was human DNA in a beaker. And the instruction to the people during the intending was I want you to attend that. That DNA twist tighter, right? And so they intended that and nothing happened, right? But then they went into heart coherence and p load go to this deep state of flow and heart coherence, which you bring a range to coherence. When they then had an intention, the DNA, the deed was tighter. So then the heart math experiment has said, okay, let’s make this a little more complicated. Let’s have three beakers of DNA and we want you to twist the DNA titer in only the right hand side beaker and leave the central beaker and we’ll have beaker unchanged. And that’s exactly what happened. They were able to use that effect. Then the experiment of Said, okay, let’s make this more difficult still. Let’s move these three beakers into the next room. We can’t even see them. And it was labeled reduce the effect and then it’s okay, now let’s have you untwist the molecules in only the one and only the middle beaker but not the two side ones. And that happened and the final experiment was they moved the three beakers 50 miles away and again, those people in heart coherence would still do that. Now that’s just mind blowing. That’s how human consciousness was literally what it was in this coherent state, able to affect human DNA at a distance of 50 miles. If that doesn’t make you think, I don’t know what [inaudible]. Unbelievable. So when you say coherence, let’s [inaudible] let’s go into that a little further. Scientifically. When you see somebody that’s coherent, what are you seeing? Is there a reading? Is the heart beating? What does that mean? Scientifically? If I’m looking at a EEG or however you define it, when you know somebody for sure in coherence, what are the signs? Yeah, you’ll see coherence on eg very easily on an MRI and also on a heart coherence monitor. So if you think about it, typically EEG readout and there are many of these in the book. Um, you see all of the brainwaves and they’re all moving in sync. So it’s like an army all marching in step. And that’s what your brainwaves look like when you’re in that coherent state. And the example I gave is a laser. So I show the image of a laser and also an incandescent bulb that integrates bulb 60 watts is very useful. It’s putting out non-coherent light. That light is not in phase, not in step, but you can eliminate your room, you can turn on your car headlights. And even in that state of not being in coherence, light is very useful if the 60 watts a bit. But if you put that same 60 watts of light in phase, it’s the laser and that laser, that 61 laser can cut through a steel plate. It’s much more powerful in phase. And so that’s what your brainwaves look like. They’re in the state of coherence, beat of the heart in conjunction with the wave of the, the brainwave. Yeah. Okay. On your brain or the saying. Wow. So is there, have you seen since you’ve been studying is, is there a shortcut? Of course. I know I can go and meditate for two hours and I’ve done that. But is there a shortcut, hey, I want to connect my heart and mind in the next five minutes. Shortcut that that may be scientifically, that you’ve seen effective. You can do it right now. You can know these. They know what I first learned to do it with heart math. I use their heart coherence monitor, their little device called the m wave. Now that same technology is available on your smartphone. You can, you can do hot coherence with your smartphone, but, um, a way of doing it without any check at all is to simply slow your reading down to six seconds per in breath and six seconds per hour breath that automatically we’ll see with our coherence. Oh, okay. That is great to know. Cause I know a lot of people out there want to understand how to get into heart coherence. They understand the theory of it, but so, um, let’s, let’s just play with, play around with these ideas. If now we know fundamentally that thoughts can consciousness can change and have an effect on reality, do you think that there is a coherence that can happen with groups of people with more, more than one person having similar thoughts? Can coherence, can independent structures start to form and exist that are even more powerful that have that when when multiple people are thinking similar thoughts, is it possible that we can start to see effects from that? Yeah. And uh, that happens in various dimensions. What is resonance? So if I, for example, have a guitar and I’m in a room where another guitar or a violin or independents being played, I’ll feel the strings of my, my guitar vibrate without me plucking them. That’s just because of the residents that’s coming through the airways. And there’s a phenomenon called emotional contagion that’s been measured and emotional contagion is that when you are with people you can pick up their feelings even at a distance. And so, um, if for example there is a healer and Healy in the same room that B and a healer goes into heart coherence don’t tend to put the Healy in hardcore appearance as well. And then people who are exuberant people are elevated emotional tone. People who are happy, they are having an effect on those all around them. And there was a slum running study that’s been running since the 1960s called the framing of heights study. I talk about some chapter two of my matter. And in that framing of [inaudible] study, they looked at the ability of people to produce emotional contagion in each other. But it turns out that if you’re happy, your next door neighbor is around a third more likely to be happy. And so for example, if you have a personal moves into a house and that process happy, the neighbors will tend to get about 34% happier. Not only that, they’ll make people around them around 50% happier, and the people around them three layers out will be around 9% happier. So it’s commercially contagion all around us all the time. And then in the, at the end of mind matter chapters five and six, I talk about this on a global scale and this is really amazing. And in this piece of research done by my heart math, uh, they are looking at, at human coherence and they found that when they took the heart rate variability and the coherence plan, the coherence, a assessment of a person in the state for a whole month, one full month, and they map that against solar activity. So flares and the way solar flares affect the earth’s field, right? They found, again, that coherent match. The two roughs were pretty much in sympathy with each other. Somebody’s not in heart coherence, no effect. But that person, hardcore appearance is then in coherence with these huge solar system wide cycles right now what that also means. So this is my huge insight as I was writing the end of the book. If I am in coherence with these huge geomagnetic pulses that are affecting the entire solar system and in turn the whole universe, then I am automatically also in coherences sync with everyone else who’s in coherence. Because if I would coherence here in California, then if somebody else in coherence in Sydney, Australia or Beijing, China, then we’re all in coherence together. So this is one of the first ways in which we can now begin to have a scientific explanation for distant healing, for clairvoyance, for the lack of being, all of these phenomena that seems so mysterious earlier. We’re now begin to realize that coherence may play a role in all of these phenomena and that this may in fact be happening on a global scale. So heartmath has what’s called the global coherence project where the tracking lists, just for example, another example I use it in mind matter is that there are random number generators in various parts of the planet surface and these are just run and they generate random strings of ones and Zeros. This is a random number generator and it’s designed to be that way. It should be totally random all the time, but it isn’t hearing, for example, big global events like nine 11, those random number generators are not random during huge peace rallies like the women’s March, uh, two and a half years ago. Those random number generated suddenly all over the world. They’re not producing random numbers anymore. And so, um, there are all kinds of ways which we can show that human consciousness is interacting in these large scale events to literally shape the world around us. And then that’s the, one of the wonderful conclusions that I got from the book is this, this real hope for the future. If we have an understanding of this coherence, as you say in your, in the, in the afterword, in the book, there’s [inaudible] we can use this. It’s real hope we can use this to change the world. And it’s a message that I love. And, and, and you really establish. So let me let w let’s just, my thoughts go off a little bit. When we start talking about GM and the power of all of these large energy, it kind of somewhat validates like astrology. I mean, and it may, it may be the effect of planets and other things. I mean, we may never know, but clearly there that the solar flares are, are, are an influence. But do you think that there could be other additional energies? And have they studied those? Have they started to study these energies? Um, do you understand what I’m asking? Yeah, and there are several of them that they identify what is called the Schumann frequencies. Right? You can see these are the basic halls of the earth. They were predicted by a German sinus called Schumann many decades before. They would discover that they found that the earth has its own heartbeat at you, if you want to call it that, and that heartbeat is a consistent 7.8 cycles per second, so roughly eight times every second. There is this human resonance, the human pulse passing through the entire planet and it turns out that when healers are studying and they are in that healing space, their brain waves come into a high degree of coherence around 7.8 hertz, same frequency our the earth. So they may in fact be then recruiting cloud. We log in the process and that’s 7.8 hertz. Cycle and frequency is found in the brains of healers regardless of whether they’re shamonic healers, she gun healers, Christian Pentecostal, faith healers, healing touch practitioners, all these kinds of healers come into that same kind of residence. I was working with a famous healer a few weeks ago called Eric Pearl, who was a close friend hooked up to an EEG and looked at his brain waves and it was amazing what’s going on in our explain where there’s an led healing space. He is in a state of coherence and he comes into that, that frequency. But he is, he’s really good at it. I hope that some of the students, and they were okay at it, he himself was brilliant at this. So an hour and people out to eps and we’re actually reverse engineering how they function. And then once we do that, we can then train people into doing this. So for example, I take people away to a retreat, everyone every year around a Christmas, new years, every seven days we parked them in a room, in a meditation room. They live, they learn to go to deep coherence. And so they’re in this deep, deep, deep, deep state of coherence by day three. So so, but their eyes are open and from their brainwaves you think there were deep meditation with the rise rope and the walking around the talking like you and I doing now they’re in this deep, deep, deep state. So fun there. During the retreat we then had them move into collections, what we call non-local mind. Now most of the time works stuck in our local sense of reality. I am focused on driving my car and what about where today and and Robin are being eaten? How many emails are in my inbox? Way Too many. Uh, looking at myself now the monitoring, realizing I’m way over the different card. This is all the obsession with the local self. This is all local. Mind me, me, me, me, me, me, me. But they show, okay so what happens though in deep meditation and in hard procurements is that the two parts of the brain that construct the self and those parts also are often worry and suffering. They’re part of the brain called the medial medial prefrontal cortex and the posterior singular cortex. The back of the brain over here. Those are the axes are the self. What happens these deep states, as those parts of the brain have a dramatic degree of shutdown. Now I’m no longer obsessed with my local reality, by local identity, my local self. I then surrender and merge with non-local reality. So in the beginning of my to matter, at the end of my, no matter, I talk about this act of surrendering to non-local reality. When you then start to vision, create affirmations, have visualizations that you literally download from those levels of reality. Einstein, Albert Einstein said, that is where all great scientific discoveries are made. And even in writing mine into matter, I mean it’s packed with 400 studies that every one of the major insights in that book came from meditation. I was at a deep state. I had emerged from that state. I be thinking thoughts that I do not think at the level of local mind. I was tuning into non-local mind and having these breakthroughs. So when you’re downloading, like in our retreats, we’re having people download from nonlocal mind that vision, our non local mind for their lives. You get insights, you add creativity, you get remarkable ideas that you don’t get it at the level of non-local mind. So I’m encouraging people in mind to matter to do that every single morning, wake up in the morning. You don’t need to spend two hours, but do spend 15 or 20 minutes. Everybody has 20 minutes it that that one change will change your life. And that really called out to me. One of the interesting things you talk about is how you started to notice by going into nature that you access the non-local. And that’s the one of the things that really stood out to me after I read the book. I was like, do I want to go for a hike today? You know, and I’d go in and I would start to notice it. I wanted to talk a little bit about that, that by going out into nature, you even give an example of going to the redwood trees, I think at one point in the book. But, um, and how everything kind of starts working out perfectly with all these little [inaudible] coincidences and synchronicities. So yeah. What is, what do you think that that w there’s a link between forest and nature and, and the non-local mind, that’s the, that’s the, that’s an actual physical example of the non-local mind in action. It’s because the university runs a non-local mind. Nature runs a non-local mind, right? The birds of the bees, the trees and the stars don’t need brains to be able to do what they do. Uh, many of them are able to do it with very little in the way our neural tissue trees have no neural tissue that we know about it. They’re able to do their tree thing and had been doing it for millions of years. Right? So hold the insurance this way and in mind to matter. I’m very focused on practical things you can do, right? [inaudible] people who did these things, there are lives there. There’s, there’s one woman who had this, she had been diagnosed with stage four ovarian uterine cancer, and she basically decided not to get treatment and just go home and die. But die in the best possible way, die in the most comfortable way. And so she would just take long walks in nature every day. And I in, in uh, in the book I have 30 of these practices even experiment with, but her is, her big one was water and time in nature and you’d lie in the bath tub for hours each day and she would just visualize that there were hitting stars just flipping through her body and just like, like snow, just moving through her body and that they were interacting with the cancer cells and like popping the cancer cells. And she lined the bottom and as the water would get colder, she let some water out, put some more water in. And she did this for a period of several months. She got her diagnosis in May and then in November, again, this is terminal stage four cancer, the prognosis in May of about six months to live. She then went back to the hospital in November, six months time. There was no trace of cancer in her body. So it’s possible to heal yourself using consciousness. And that doesn’t mean that everybody never will need a pill, will never need chemotherapy. Some people do need pills, do need surgery, they need do, need various medications. And it’s wonderful. We have all the, the, the, the benefits of modern medicine at our disposal. But I say use energy, experiment with energy. See what energy can do for you. It can do a huge amount including, oh, there’s just this week actually there was a study published in, um, in uh, uh, in the Journal, um, secondary immunology showing that meditation is to dramatically shift the aging process, for example. So these practices, those 30 practices like time and nature, meditation, grounding, acupressure, all of these things can, how they huge, huge, huge effect both on your health and your longevity. It’s amazing. I’d like to think this out a little bit further. Um, you know, lot, some physicists talk about the Akashic record and doc, Dr Joe has the wonderful void meditation. This idea that there’s this, this, this non-local field has information about all possible realities and so much information that’s all stuck in this field. Is it, is it an, it’s a, it’s an is it an energy, is it or is it just a field that we’re accessing or, um, let me, yeah. And we, um, we become aware of phenomena and it takes us awhile to figure out the how. So for example, we’ve known for a long time that humans essentially it’s heavily using, had pressure like puncture product healing, what kinds of energy healing techniques without us having any idea of how they work. Now we’re beginning to figure out the, the actual mechanisms of action, others things. And so we actually measure these fields now, but a hundred years ago we could measure none of those fields. So, um, it takes a while. There’s a big lag times of hundreds of the arrows we’ve been observing that a phenomenon like energy healing works and knowing how it works. And so these large information fields, we are beginning to understand them. But what we are seeing, for example, is that the brain is definitely not. We’ll see the artists, the brain is more like a receiver of consciousness from the field and a projector of consciousness out your body into the environment around you. And so the old model, the old idea in mechanistic, uh, behavioral reductionistic science was that the idea was that you have a brain, a very complex brain in the case of human being. And that brain is then creating this thing called mind and consciousness. And you have mine, you have consciousness because of your brain, but there’s no scientific validity to that, that worldview, that that proposition instead the brain is more like a receiver of consciousness. So the old view, the old mechanistic view that the brain creates auditors is like saying, well, canine was this podcast with Brian and Dawson and listening on my iPad, therefore, right? And Dawson must be inside of my iPad creating this broadcast, this podcast. Now. And that’s just absurd, of course. And that’s the old view that that is still planned to by many scientists that the brain is of this. But of course it doesn’t, uh, the brain is receiving consciousness from the field. And so just the way that person, but that iPad now it might, might look to a primitive tribes pose. For example, Lou never seen an iPad before. It might look like Brian and Dawson were inside inside that device, but we know that there is this information field from which the iPad is receiving information and then making it accessible to us in, in global sets. And the same way our brains are receiving information and we can tune our brains to different places. We can play up, uh, tune our brains to the, to the vibration of fear. Uh, there are people, there’s lots to be afraid of nowadays. The world, I mean there’s, you know, there’s, there’s, there’s global warming and climate change, unpredictable weather. There is a scarcity of our clean water and food. There’s deforestation in the Amazon. I can just go on rambling. Not all the stuff that’s wrong for a long time. And I know people who you to national public radio to the Pacific radio and whip themselves and friends, frenzy of fear every day. Something’s wrong in the world. They’re tuning their consciousness to the fear of signal and that is gonna really affect your health. A study published, um, this weekend, nature found that high adrenaline produced in the words of the researcher drastically shortened lifespan, quote unquote high adrenaline levels produced drastically shortened lifespan. You do not want to wake up in the morning and tune the information field of headache, of fear, of lack, of all the things that there are to be concerned about in the world. Now, it doesn’t mean you’re, you’re, you’re an uncaring person or you’re a distant automaton that has, has no compassion and there’s one to know about the suffering of your fellow human beings. You do, but you don’t want that to be your primary single. You want to wake up in the morning and make a primary signal, the primary information field. You are attuned to the field of the love of the universe, the benevolent universe, the kind of caring nature that is making those flowers bloom. And those bees find honey make honey. So you know, you have a choice. Your attention is your most precious possession because of where your direct it is going to determine which information feel you becoming a tuned tube and as you become more and more attuned to the good, into kindness, to compassion, to wellbeing, optimism to hope. If you attune yourself to all of that, that you are lighting up those neural pathways in your brain and you’re now turning the software of your consciousness into the hardware, the hardwired hardware of your brain and now you have bigger and bigger and bigger of circuits for perceiving hyenas or perceiving the good for perceiving love or perceiving compassion and that becomes the kind of rain you have opera while in chapter one of mind matter, I give the example of grey and Phillips because I wanted to really find a dramatic case history and did an eight week mindfulness meditation program and he had a team of researchers. He was a TD personality. He had an old TV crew with them and the first day as he began his meditation mindfulness program. Yeah. The TV crew with him at Monash University where he was given this comprehensive suite of tests and they measured the volume of every single part of his brain, how doing the neurons in his brain then operate mixed with back. And in that eight weeks, a part of his brain called the dentist gyrus, which is responsible for coordinating emotional regulation among different brain regions. His vantage gyrus grew by 22.8% in just eight weeks. And that is how quickly the software of mine is building the hardware of your brain. So after a while you had this very, very different brain inside your head and much younger brain, a much more engaged brain, the much more resilient brain, and you are a whole different person. So as powerful as you use this gift of consciousness to attune to those universal information peels of benevolence and kindness and love and wellbeing, make that your signal near there resonated with everybody else who’s in residence with that and having a radically better life as a result. So I just want to talk a little bit about your, your morning routine. I mean, you kind of briefly spoke about it, but somebody with your kind of knowledge that’s experimented with this. Uh, I, I love to share and, and steal morning routines. So you wake up in the morning, what time do you usually wake up? About five 35 30 yeah. And then the first thing that you do when you wake up, what’s your standard usual and meditate first thing, because the way before you get out of bed in bed, you meditate. Yeah. And I, I tuned that universal field beforehand because when you are in, and I have lot of pictures of brainwaves, the book and what they claim, what they do, right. But when you’re in that early state, you have a lot of Delta, you’re slows way and a lot of data. You have a little bit of Alpha as well. And so when you are asleep, your brain has no Alpha, very little Beta and no, none of those high frequencies. It’s almost all in the two. Slower frequency is Delta and Beta. So you want to stay in that Delta Theta state and not start thinking when you think you go to Beta and Beta suppressors. Okay. Then Delta, they don’t don’t are two healing frequencies as well. So if you’ve, if you begin the morning by staying that drowsy state rule while you then are keeping brain in that state and you’re then building alpha, now Elvis, then the bridge to your conscious mind frequency of Beta. So you gradually move in into a Delta Beta Alpha Beta state and that’s a really peaceful state. That’s the one where you can get out of local mind into non-local mind. Now number two, Brian, right? I go make a cup of coffee. I love coffee and I just have coffee every day and it really makes spiller. It makes me awake. So I brush my teeth, have some vitamins, have a cup of coffee, sit there in meditation with my coffee Mug and then just bars. If the state called this spray and I just, I, I buy the reason I, the reason it’s there’s such bliss there is I’m using this routine that I show you in mind to matter called eco meditation. And it’s basically meditation one oh one for male meditators like me, people who can’t meditate, people who can’t spell their mind. You just do these seven simple physical things like the breather, that six second rhythm. You relax muscles in your body and do these, these seven mechanical things and then automatically you’re in heart procurements. So now you’re in coherence. [inaudible], pub hike, hierarchy, coherence. You feel really good. And then of course there’s carving, there’s reeling, you feel wonderful. And so that triggers the secretion of several neurotransmitters and hormones. One of them is oxytocin. You appeal this rush, a bonding because oxytocin is the hormone that is triggered by bonding and you’re bonding not with another human being. You’re bonding with the universe. And I have lots of oxytocin. Oxytocin triggers the production of two neurotransmitters, which are nitric oxide. And An antibide nitrogen oxide makes you awake, alert, expands blood vessels in your brain. And, um, anonymize is called the bliss molecule because it ducks with the same receptor sites in your brain as the active ingredient in marijuana, THC, all these THC receptors and an anti dots with those. And you start to totally bliss out. So you’d sit there in this blissful state, you’re really alert, you feel really wonderful and you sit there and was spraying for awhile and you don’t want to go anywhere because it just feels so, so, so good. So between page 80 and page 91, our minds matter, I talk a lot about an ad of mine, how to trigger an animate in your brain mechanically through meditation. And so I do that in the morning and then by the time we get to work and talk to my wife and just my, my, my workday I feel is totally wonderful and, um, and, and maintain that as best I can throughout the day. And you’ve used accessing these states to do some remarkable things. And I was, uh, I found a unique coincidence uni when we’re, when I was 45, I took an art class. Next thing you know, I’m doing a bunch of paintings because uh, and I was also meditating it say you have a story like that to where you just, you you’d never painted before, right? You started um, doing some meditations, went to a single art class. Next thing you know, you’re doing these incredible art pieces and you did like 30 pieces of art in a short period of time, right? You can access incredible skills by going into these states of mind. That’s what I found also pretty interesting from the book. Yeah. And in the book I talk about the effects of this in your outer world and there is research I, it makes you much more creative, much more productive and increases your problem solving ability. Like in one study by DARPA, the defense research agency, they found that people in that flow state, their ability to solve complex problems increases by 490%. That’s almost five fold increase in problem solving ability. So you then go to your work projects and now there’s this baffling complex problem, but you’re in flow. You’re in this meditative mind. You then bring all that problem solving ability to the problems before you and you were much better at dealing with your life as a result. Yep. It’s amazing. How have you developed an evening routine and obviously this morning true routine works great and we’re going back into that Theta Delta state is there is a, is there a recommended evening routine that can also aid us in this process? I think it’s important to get enough sleep and have high quality sleep and also to be able to deal with any negative thoughts and dreams. So if I need to, I use EFT acupressure, which is tapping on 13 acupressure points with your finger tips and that relieves your stress and balances the body’s energy system. And I talked about the OT and again in meditation payment nature about 30 of these things in the book. And so at night I may do some tapping, I may be in that meditative state. I Orient Myself again to non-local mind before I go to sleep. I just pinched myself, one with the level of universe, I fall asleep. That way. If I wake up in the middle of the night, I again tune my mind there automatically. And then I feel calm and peaceful and grateful for having a wonderful life. And so I give thanks. I’m thinking today too that, you know, it’s not like my life is perfect. Uh, I mean if you, it’s not like when you do this, everything is just perfect on in the outside. Uh, like, you know, it’s like, like for example, um, my wife and I lost our, our home in a wildfire two years ago and we had two minutes between the time we woke up with a fire rushing over the hill before he drove out through the flames. And so, you know, while it’s not like, cause we’re such good meditators, the wildfire bypassed our house. It a story 5,000, 300 homes that, that that night and as was among them. But we were resilient because we were meditators in order to tap, um, many, many years ago, like, trying to think how many years ago, 28 years ago, I had a child that died. And so again, having a trial that died, some people would just be devastated the rest of their lives. Many, many people get to Boris, many a helpless breakout. Many people actually have persistent depression out of that. And again, I certainly, you know, had a really hard time with my child dying, but eh, but again, I was able to overcome that. So you have all kinds of the same stresses that people have in their lives. But when you had that 23% increase in neural tissue in the dentate gyrus, meditation is not just then a state, it’s brain cells and your brain has rewired itself around resilience. So after the fire, my wife and I were resilient. We were able to bounce back really quickly and reconstruct our lives and go on to an even better life than we have org. So it’s powerful to use these practices. And at night what you can do is really focus on attuning your, your brain and your mind that the level of the universe, so to speak and see that way. Having a good nights sleep, waking up, feeling refreshed, enthusiastic, and ready to beat today ahead of you. I’m so happy that you survived that. I think everybody listening. That’s amazing that you, I’m just so happy. Um, that’s, that’s in California that, that happened. One of the wildfires in California. Yeah. It was called the Tubbs fire. There were two big fires when in 2017 the tubs fire 2018 was the paradise fire and also claimed many, many, many lives. I’m just so happy that you, that you got through after you had warning signs, when this happened, you had some part of you that told you to get up and mind woke up. And uh, maybe because of your being tuned in and awareness that, that you were able to get out and intuitively, and I wrote a story about this for um, for my, I, I write on the science columnist for Unity magazine and they wrote a column about this and the columns called 12:45 AM and it was, we woke up, she shook me awake. I looked at the alarm clock, said 12:45 AM and then the power went out. And so, um, many of my neighbors as I talked to them said they were mysteriously awakened at 12:45 AM because the fire is moving at the speed of a football field every three seconds. And so unless people, uh, knew they as a swept through our canyon, they couldn’t get out. Pretty two people did die in the fire, eight of them died within just a thousand yards of our home because the virus moving so quickly. So those that intuitively woke up those that, um, had some kind of early warning system, our county actually has a system where they’ve send like amber alerts to your cell phone and you’re a telephone and or I think, I have no idea why, but the, the, the people in charge of that system said, you know, if we send those alerts to everyone in the path of the fire, people paddock and the roads will get clogged. So the powers that be decided, not rebirth. So the fire moving again every three seconds just spread through the valley. And a lot of people died. But, um, those woke up is so uncanny that at 12:45 AM people woke up. [inaudible] another example of that is during the Indonesian tsunami, um, in 2004, there were these remote islanders called the Andaman Islanders who refuse contact with any, uh, modern civilization. They, they, they just refuse to have any contact there. They, they live in Indonesia on an, on an island, the atom, an island. And um, but they, they’re hostile to the outside world. They, they, they didn’t have subsistence economy. They live by, by both shooting game with their bows and their blow guns. And we use a fierce islanders. So, uh, the, the, the snotty came through and wiped out those islands on the island nearby the next island, like 10,000 people died. And so the sociologists thought that these animals had been completely wiped out. There are only about 400 of the, of these prides people at existence, right? Eventually the Indonesian government, about two weeks later, there was, had a helicopter of harboring over the island to see if any of them survived. And there were met by a hail of, of arrows from these, these islanders. Eventually they did land and there were four young men dressed in loincloths and came out. And then one person who spoke Andaman and they talked to them and said, you know how many of you are left often tsunami? And the abdomen said, oh, we’re all here. And they’re saying, but all of your hats are along the beach. And the beach is all got wiped out. And the Edelman said, oh no, that day we all just walked up into the top of the mountains yet on our island. So the entire tribe walked up to the top of the hill before the tsunami. They knew, right? What’s the difference between those people who are in tune with nature? And that’s me to be in tune with nonlocal mind. And then you can sense things like there’s a wildfire. We wake up at 12:45 AM in time to get out. So it’s powerful to live your life in sync with that, those large natural cycles. And even though there’s still a wildfire, you tend to be the one who gets out. So the non-local mind may have or clearly has information about the future or possible versions of the future. And maybe just our heart is the one that can sense this. Our mind can’t even understand it, but it seems like the non-local mind has information about the future. Would you agree from these examples that you’ve given? Yeah. In, uh, in my in minds matter, I talk about famous researcher called Darryl Beam and his, uh, studies of pre-cognition knowing the future. And he’s done a whole series of studies showing that, uh, a bit highly convincing to study this in different labs all over the world. And they show that people are able to have a sense of the future, not only that the heart knows the future before the mind knows the future, right? One set of experiments, researchers flashed at random, either an emotionally triggering negative picture on a, uh, on a screen like a car accident or car crash or a positive image like, um, a base of flowers and just raw at random. The computer flashed either a negative or positive image. It’s like one in flash up the screen and the researchers found that the heart registered, whether it was positive or negative by getting less or more stressed before the brain did so the heart was aware of what, what the negative or positive image was before the brain was. But here’s the freaky thing, Brian. The heart changed its configuration to register the positive and negative signal before the computer at random selected the image [inaudible]. I know you’re probably aware of the studies that were less people are on trains that have accidents. Yes. There’s all these people that didn’t go into the building and nine 11 they just had a feeling. There was a statistically significant number of people that avoid accidents and may be related to this. We’re now after nine 11 the New York police department, they put up their first count of how many people would would, would have been killed. They said, well, at around 8:00 AM there would have been about 5,500 people in the building. Right. That’s our estimate. How many people died when the evangelist? This came in, uh, it was around 2000 people. And so in, in the book in mind, a matter of, I give the stories of some of those people and the absolutely completely wacky synchronicities that stop them from being in the World Trade Center at that time. So do you think that there’s a wave front from the future that the heart is detecting? I mean obviously there’s no way to for sure. No, but it would appear that there, that time is working like a wave and we’re detecting waves from the future and ones that are particular to us, our heart can be sensitive to. Yes. And we get better with that ability as we use it more. That’s the big message of the book is meditate, do EFT tapping, use these 30 practices, time in nature, grounding uses near life because the more you use them, the more you developed that brain tissue. Now you have more neural hardware to do all this stuff with. So as your hardware increases in bulk, you have more of a bigger antenna as where to pick up those signals from the field. And so you want to practice these things and research shows that in just eight weeks of practice, you are building more neural tissues that are snake long will the process of start now you know when to stop and upgrade. Weeks got to keep on going for eight months, eight years, your whole life. But the process does not take a large investment of time and the effects do not take a long time to show up in your life. You’re tuned to another local mind. You start to feel happier every day. You do it repeatedly, you start feel much happier and your whole life is in sync. [inaudible] it’s amazing. You know, I have, I have to agree with Dr Joe on his assessment of you as a supermind cause the examples that you’ve just given us with just automatically off the top of your mind are amazing and incredible and I’m, you’re obviously somebody that is an information sponge constantly. Yeah, I know that feeling. I know, I see. I see. You’re just like me. So I would love to ask, there are some new information that you’ve asked accessed recently. Is there some book or study that really that you’ve are obviously all it, we’ve mentioned three or four, but we may be outside of the conversation. Is there something that really has been interesting to you that you’d love to share with the reality revolution? Aye. Aye. It’s been wonderful to me to see how science has been validating spirituality and mystical experience now for the last hundred years. This is why we’ve developed things like likability to be heart rate variability, brain waves and so on. We’re now building of a detailed profile of the brain function are meditators and in my book mind to matter. I call that the awakened mind. It’s not my own term came much earlier. Buddhism uses it. EEG researchers abuse the awakened mind. But, um, I love the way science is validating our ability to do this. So yeah. Or a friend of mine called Judith Pennington, there’s published a study and um, in this study she hooked up people at one of my retreats, it with an EEG and she found that they were able to access these, these big states really quickly. Just the second time they did this 20 minute meditation already. When she compared them to a database of 7,500 egs, they were at the top of the scale. So we now are able using science to trigger these states really reliably. Before, uh, in, uh, millennia ago, it took 10,000 hours of meditation and even begin to get there. Now I can sit someone down, hook them up to an EEG and in about 90 seconds I can have them there. So it’s wonderful that science style is validating this. And with Judah study we just just published a couple of months ago, uh, I was just so, so pleased to see that showing that she says this produces a extraordinary brain space. And the other cool thing is she found that significantly they were able to maintain those states with our eyes open. So we don’t need to go into the convent, all the by three, all the desert, all the Himalayas anymore. Stay in your job, stay with your boundaries, stay doing what you’re doing, but the tier to these elevated states and that express within your life and feel how good it would feel to live that way. Eyes Open every day. Amazing. Well, we’re already up. I probably talked to you for three or four hours more and I really hoped that you would come back on the show. We’ve talked about so much. Your book is wonderful. Everybody minds matter. You can, there’s a special right now on Amazon. You can get the book for a dollar 99 and there’s a goal. I want everybody in the room, really the real reality revolution to help me right now. I believe that there is about 590 reviews on this book and it would really help Dr. Church out too. If we could get to a thousand reviews, so please go on, get a copy of his book, leave a review. Even if you’ve already read it and didn’t leave a review, please go and leave a review because everybody needs to read this book. Everybody needs to read it. It’s, it will change the way that you look at the world and give you a better understanding of the how and why. And it will inspire you. It’ll give you very easy suggestions and examples on how you can change the way that your mind works and the way that you interconnect with the universe. And it’s just wonderful. So Dawson, thank you so much for coming on the show. You’re a wonderful writer. It’s a real honor that you came on the show and I can’t wait for your next book is do you have a new one coming soon? Yeah. In a year I’m writing a followup book called a bliss sprain, and that’ll be available in, uh, August of next year. And this gets deep into the neurotransmitters and hormones of ecstasy and how these literally reshape your brain. So yeah, or I’m on the list. I’ll be written that as soon as it comes out. I can’t wait. So thank you so much. Thank you. And, uh, hopefully we’ll talk to you again very soon. It’s a joy to share. Thank you so much.

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